THE FOLLOWING POSTS ARE FROM A MESSAGE BOARD AT AKHEVA.COM-- I HAVE REPRODUCED THE ENTRIES HERE IN CASE A CERTAIN PERSON WANTS TO START SOME TROUBLE WITH ME. I HAVE NOT ALTERED THE TEXT OF THESE POSTS IN ANY WAY, AND IF MORE CONTINUE TO PROLIFERATE, I WILL POST THOSE AS WELL.
So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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...and there hasn't been any donations in months.
It's not surprising, of course. At best, this concept was suited for non-success from the onset. At worst, the stunning magnitude of its utter failure is an indication that one should not try to keep up with the zeitgeists. The fact is, in another year, no one will care about who is more patriotic and what to do about terrorism.
In another year, we will all be back to caring only for ourselves.
I look forward to that.
9/18/03, 8:39 pm Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
WVUMedGuy
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Geez, yet another person who doesnt bother to read the other threads before they post crap about the site being unsuccessful.
Hey Don, do you have the standard response ready to copy and paste?????
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donrosenberger
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Standard reply?
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Well.......considering how many times I have had to use the answer, I probably should develop a "standard" response to that kind of post - but I see that as more of the owner's problem, or one for the administrators. I'm just another poster.
Two main points:
1. The owner of this site did not intend to have anyone "sent away" against their will. The owner was tired of hearing people say that they hated America, and that they wanted to leave our nation - so he was offering to give them money to do it. No force intended or implied - ThenLeave was trying to help someone do what they claimed they wanted to do already.
This question has been posed before, and answered several times by several posters. (That is why WVUMedGuy was wondering if we had a standard response as yet - since it seems to be the first, and often the only, question that a newbie leftist asks on this forum.)
Look over other threads, and you will see that the question has been asked and answered before, and more than once. The last poster to make the challenge was chthonicplatypus, in a topic named Why the xenophobia? That thread should be relatively easy to find under the TOPIC listings when you look at the main page of the forum.
2. After months of making the challenge, the forum's owner found out that the folks who claimed to hate America were all talk, and no action. Time after time, a leftist turned down a chance to leave the United States, even when ThenLeave offered money to help them. (So the number of people on the "volunteer to leave" list kept shrinking.....) Therefore, ThenLeave ceased collecting money for the enterprise - and has donated the funds collected to a charity. This is why no money has been collected lately.
Note that the failure was not on the part of this site's owner - but upon the leftists who were claiming that they wanted to leave the country! If they had been serious about their claims, then some of them would have left. By not leaving, these leftists merely proved what the "regulars" on this forum knew already: America is a great country! Who would want to live anywhere else?
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/19/03, 12:02 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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I'm quite aware of the posts and threads-- I applied to be sent away months ago. Not only was I not added to your candidates list (which hasn't changed since I first applied) but I seriously doubted that you guys would be able to raise the money to send even ONE person away. I wrote this out in an e-mail, and of course I got no response from you guys. I see that my doubts were founded in solid reasoning.
I read about "Doug" whom you list as having "changed his mind" about leaving the country. Someone sent an e-mail in, saying that they would be happy to drive "Doug" to his desired location (it was in the continental U.S.) and save the site some money in the process. HOW CHEAP IS THAT? Not to mention the fact that anyone who would accept a ride from a person who most likely is intolerant of their political beliefs would have to be insane to do so.
No, I am not "Doug"-- I am Sex McGinty, and I've been checking up on you guys from time to time. Your high-faltuin' verbiage aside, there is no justification for this failure of a website.
Sold any American-flag-themed coffee mugs lately?
Last edited by mcginty, 9/19/03, 3:12 pm
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ThenLeave
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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McGinty...While I don't remember getting an e-mail specifically from you (there have been hundreds) maybe it was too full of ranting for us to spend time reading every word. We have received so many that start "Hey Asshole..." that we tend to tune out after a sentence or two. Sorry that I missed you though (ha-ha).
However, I have to agree with Don that this site was a success in that it proved (at some level) that this country shouldn't be hated by it's residents. This is the best country in the world. If you disagree with the state of the country...then change it. Don't whine like a child and do nothing.
PS: I have one of the coffee mugs and it is quite nice.
9/19/03, 11:44 pm Send Email to ThenLeave Send PM to ThenLeave
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Do you still want to go???????
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Hey, mcginty: Now that I know a few more details, and you are claiming that e-mail has failed your purposes, I am now curious.........
Why do you hate America? Don't talk about Bush, or about side-issues - because the basis for getting money from ThenLeave was that you hate America itself, and wish to leave it. So why do you want to leave, and where do you want to go? (Perhaps part of the answer will reveal why you were not taken seriously as a candidate!)
You are claiming that ThenLeave didn't listen to you earlier, so here is your chance to have me listen to you now. How about some specifics on your case? I mean, if you are really that desperate to leave a nation that you hate - maybe we can still find a way to help you out........
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/20/03, 3:18 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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First of all, the thing I hate the most is how people like yourself are marginalizing people like myself, by drawing a line in the sand and saying "You are either for us or against us." That is the most anti-American thing I can imagine, but you wrap yourself around the Flag and tell anyone who dissents that they are wrong. That is not what America is about. If it weren't for political dissent, America would still be an English colony.
However, I also agree that people like yourself have the right to voice your opinions. Hell, the KKK has the right to voice their opinions, even if I don't agree with them. And, of course, I have the right to voice mine. That's what I love about America.
Now that I think about it, it's not the country I hate-- it's the tactics of people like you. Notice how I didn't say that I hate you in particular-- I don't know you, and for all I know you may be a nice person outside of your poltical beliefs. But just look at your conditions for listening to my reasons: don't mention Bush and the economy? Why do you not want to hear about that? It seems to me that you are living life with blinders on.
Anyway, I'd like a ticket to Amsterdam. Who knows? Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave. But I was hoping to go by the summer, and now it's Fall, and I was the one who had to come to you guys THREE TIMES already. And what about the other "candidates?" If they really have all changed their minds, as you claim, then why haven't you updated your site to reflect this? It seems to me that you have no faith in your own convictions. Therefore, anything you say to me at this point is entirely without credibilty.
I don't hate America, and I don't hate Americans in specific-- I hate the actions of ignorant Americans who make me feel ashamed for living under the same umbrella as them. You do not speak for me, just as I do not speak for you. But get real-- Iraq was a bad idea, and now my stepfather has to stay out there until May, instead coming home to his wife (my mother) and his kids in October like Bush promised. He's a reserve, and was proud to do his time, but if you ask me a real hero and a real patriot stays at home and raises their kids and takes care of his loved ones. That's all the proof I need from him to call him a hero.
How many friends and family do you have out there in Iraq? I'm assuming that you have at least one cousin or nephew who wishes he or she were home, indulging in the creature comforts that war-mongers like yourself take for granted.
I support the troops- read the L.A Times article from that soldier who is out in Iraq right now. I believe he used the words "biggest modern lie" to describe his participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom. I support the troops, because they don't want to be out there, fighting so that someone who is rich can get richer off of them.
Anyway, the minute you scrape up enough change from under your couch to get me on the plane to Amsterdam, please let me know ASAP. You may think I'm bluffing, but I guarantee you-- I will not change my mind. I think that's what you guys are afraid of, and I think that's why I've never been accepted as a candidate.
For the third time,
Sex McGinty
sexmcginty@hotmail.com
ps: I'm sure the mugs are quite nice-- and I'm sure there's hundreds of them, sitting in unopened boxes, begging to be sold on eBay...
Last edited by mcginty, 9/22/03, 6:50 pm
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donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
Now that I think about it, it's not the country I hate-- it's the tactics of people like you. Notice how I didn't say that I hate you in particular-- I don't know you, and for all I know you may be a nice person outside of your poltical beliefs. But just look at your conditions for listening to my reasons: don't mention Bush and the economy? Why do you not want to hear about that? It seems to me that you are living life with blinders on.
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OK - there is a lot of hate in your life........I get that part of it.
But I hope that you can see in your first sentence above why you were not taken seriously as a candidate. That is, the basis of the "candidate list" was for people who really, truly "HATE AMERICA" - and you confess above that it is not our nation that you hate. If a candidate were to simply hate some of the people in America - then almost every single American would be a candidate, right?? But the point was, ThenLeave was looking for folks who had a legitimate hatred for the nation, and wanted to leave it due to their hatred. You may have wanted to go on a vacation.......but you didn't want to go to Amsterdam because you hate the United States of America. So you must have had another reason.........and that is probably what eliminated you.
As for the end of your paragraph - you are trying too hard to read between lines that aren't there. My tactic here is very straight-forward. You may tell us how much you hate our president to your heart's content on the other threads - or even this thread, if it makes you feel better. (This forum emphasizes freedom of speech, after all.) But you missed the point of my question. I didn't want to hear that you wanted to leave America because you were anti-Bush (even if you are) - because anti-Bush is not the same as anti-American. And being out of work gives you a possible reason to hate the economy - but anti-unemployment is not the same as being anti-American. So perhaps my question was taken as being a tad "rude" - but the purpose I was after was to learn why you were definitely "anti-American", instead of being "anti-anything-else". So you were thinking that I was telling you to shut-up, and I was not. Rather, I was trying to find out specifically why you hated our nation - and it turns out that you do not. (My "blinders" were to make sure I wouldn't miss the reasons in a sea of answers that were not anti-American. I hope that you can see that now.)
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/25/03, 8:34 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
First of all, the thing I hate the most is how people like yourself are marginalizing people like myself, by drawing a line in the sand and saying "You are either for us or against us." That is the most anti-American thing I can imagine, but you wrap yourself around the Flag and tell anyone who dissents that they are wrong. That is not what America is about. If it weren't for political dissent, America would still be an English colony.
However, I also agree that people like yourself have the right to voice your opinions. Hell, the KKK has the right to voice their opinions, even if I don't agree with them. And, of course, I have the right to voice mine. That's what I love about America.
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I think that the important part is to clarify what is being said on this site. The point ThenLeave makes is that you either want to live in this nation, or you wish to leave - and if you hate America enough to leave it......then help is offered. Whether you agree with us or not on all points is not the issue on this forum.
I would actually appreciate it if you would take your opinion to the hard-core "leftist" forums on the web, and make the same complaint that you just did. You see, if I were to dare to say something conservative on many liberal forums, then I would be instantly banned from that forum. By your argument above - doesn't that make liberal forums "unAmerican"? Perhaps you should go and tell them about this............... The fact that you can still login and yell at us basically lets you know that this site is very pro-freedom-of-speech. I'd urge you to think about that point.
Once again, you have mentioned a reason that you love America - so I will remind you that to be a verified candidate, you have to hate America, and desire to leave the country because of your hate.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/25/03, 8:45 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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So, in other words, you're just waiting for the one person in America who hates it more than people in other
countries...
As far as lame excuses go, that's Number One.
I like how you say I have a lot of hate in my life, then you go on to say that I don't hate America enough.
Just admit that you're cheap, and that your site is a dud, and I'll be on my way.
I knew, from the first e-mail, when I actually went out of my way to say I hated America (because at the time I was out of work and all that), that this was a farce. Every response you've given me confirms this.
In fact, thanks to you, I won $50 from a friend who bet me that this time I was going to get sent away for good. I bet him that you guys had no intention of sending anyone in the first place, and I was right.
I'd spend the money on some of those mugs, but the only problem is I'd be sending money to you.
As for vacation, who takes year long vacations? I certainly don't. You said on your site ANYWHERE in the world, as long as it wasn't a terrorist-sponsoring country.
Anyway, I'll keep responding to your posts as long as you keep posting them. But you know you've lost, right? Despite your attempts to sound rational and civilized, the rest of your site speaks for itself. Everyone I have given the URL to-- even people who once felt the way you do-- have felt nauseated by the crappy stench of your version of patriotism.
And are you going to give back the paltry $176.00 that you somehow managed to raise? Or was that out of your own pocket? Better yet-- you raised the money, and now you're claiming that it's yours.
Go to www.modestneeds.org-- maybe the guy at that site will lend you the money to send someone away.
9/25/03, 8:53 pm Se
mcginty
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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Don't split hairs here-- you people at this site are the ones saying "for or against." And since I am against what you are for, that makes me an America-hater. Therefore, by your own divisive logic, you MUST send me to Amsterdam, because I am against you and your "America-loving" crew.
Yes, it's black-and-white extremist logic, but it's that very same logic that enables people to say "If you don't like it here, then leave!"
On that note: I'd like to leave on October 24th of this year-- that's the day after my mother's birthday. She'd be terribly displeased if I missed her birthday. I don't want to fly on United or American, though-- something about those airlines gives me the creeps...
9/25/03, 9:00 pm Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, I'd like a ticket to Amsterdam. Who knows? Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave. But I was hoping to go by the summer, and now it's Fall, and I was the one who had to come to you guys THREE TIMES already. And what about the other "candidates?" If they really have all changed their minds, as you claim, then why haven't you updated your site to reflect this? It seems to me that you have no faith in your own convictions. Therefore, anything you say to me at this point is entirely without credibilty.
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First - about the site. I'm just a poster here, like you are. So I have no control whatsoever over the site. Please don't blame me for not updating a site that I don't own. It isn't your fault that the site isn't getting updated, either, is it?? I agree with you on this point - if the site is actually taking a step away from offering money to folks who want to leave - then the main web page should be updated to reflect this, and avoid any confusions on the point. But all that I can do is to urge ThenLeave to do so.......that is the extent of my power. Note for emphasis: You have not come to me three times already - I am just a poster like you are. Feel free to send a PM (Personal Message) to ThenLeave about the issue - and maybe he can get to it when his work allows him to.
But the point that I was making earlier was that I recall a time when the site reported having twenty-six candidates. The number on the main page is now listing nine candidates. So the site has changed in the past to reflect the number of folks who claimed to be "serious" about hating America, and wanting to leave it. Apparently, the reason 26 people became candidates, and the number dropped to 9, was that at least 15 of the candidates did not truly hate America enough to leave it - or changed their minds when they found that ThenLeave was serious about helping them leave.
I should also note that to become a "verified candidate", a person was supposed to guarantee ThenLeave that they would stay out of the country for a year. This was to measure their seriousness in leaving - as I'm sure many people might be asking for money just so that they could take a quick vacation for less money. And the point of this web site was to tell folks that if they were preaching enough hate to leave America and wanting to leave it - then you were going to stay out for a while.
Now let's go over the requirements again. Do you hate America the nation? (Nope.) Did you promise to leave for at least a year? (Nope. "Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave" is not the same as a promise to stay out for at least a year, and I think you know that.) Do you have an American passport, shots, and other things taken care of so that you really CAN leave America? I hope that you know that you cannot just go to an airport, and go to another nation in Europe with no paperwork! From what I can see........you were not put on the candidate's list for legitimate reasons - and if you had complaints before - you should have entered them on this forum back then, instead of waiting for your desired date to leave to expire first.
Finally, I'll remind you again that I'm just a poster here - putting my two cents in, just like you are. So don't hate me for my opinions. And don't blame me for the way the site is run - that isn't my job. (I'm getting a little tired of hearing that my postings have no credibility because I dare to post items on a site that I don't own!)
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/25/03, 9:24 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
I don't hate America, and I don't hate Americans in specific-- I hate the actions of ignorant Americans who make me feel ashamed for living under the same umbrella as them. You do not speak for me, just as I do not speak for you. But get real-- Iraq was a bad idea, and now my stepfather has to stay out there until May, instead coming home to his wife (my mother) and his kids in October like Bush promised. He's a reserve, and was proud to do his time, but if you ask me a real hero and a real patriot stays at home and raises their kids and takes care of his loved ones. That's all the proof I need from him to call him a hero.
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And the first sentence tell you why you haven't been a verified candidate on this site. If you don't have a legitimate hatred for America - then you aren't in the list of folks who truly want to leave because they hate America - it is that simple.
The issue of Iraq is one that we can debate - but being anti-Iraq does not make you anti-American. (If you were waiting for someone who is "conservative" to say that......now you have heard me say it!)
If you didn't know it, mcginty, I am a retired Army officer. So I understand what you are saying about "doing your time", and "being away from your family". If your father is like me - then I know he does not enjoy being away from you any more than you like it! I'm not going to debate your definition of "hero" - because it is a correct one.
But you also pointed out above that dissent made the American nation. Do you understand that General Washington and others did not simply say, "we disagree", and instantly became a nation?! They had to take up arms for what they thought was right. If they had not taken up arms and fought, and spent a lot of time away from their families, then America would not exist. And now is a great time to remind you - no one on Earth can tell exactly how long a war will last, and how much effort it will take to stabilize a nation after it has been defeated. Got it? No one! Folks who tell you that they know such things have never been in uniform. (At least, I hope that is the case!) You are blaming President Bush for something that is beyond his control. He should not have "promised" a return by October when that kind of thing cannot be guaranteed. We had a lot of criticism for President Bush, Sr. on Iraq - for starting a war against Saddam, and not finishing it. Now that we have finished a war against Saddam - I would also propose that it makes sense to do our very best to insure that a viable, democratic government be in power (and supported) so that we don't have to go back in your generation, or in your children's. As with many other jobs, you can choose to do the job right, or resign yourself to having to do it over, later.
Pardon me if this point is too annoying - but it is also true that if you are not willing to serve - then you should not join the Army. It is that simple. "I want to defend my nation......but only on weekends........and only in my home town!" Now you know that such a thing is ridiculous, don't you? So I would also claim that part of the anger which you have should be directed at your own stepfather. He made the decision to serve, and no one held a gun to his head while he signed the papers........... If not Iraq, it could have been North Korea. If not Korea, maybe Cuba. But nobody is guaranteed a "100% peacetime" tour of duty. Not your stepfather, not my cousin, and not me. If you don't want the risk, then get out of the uniform. If you put on the uniform - then follow orders - and don't moan about promises that were never made. It is that simple.
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
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mcginty wrote:
I support the troops- read the L.A Times article from that soldier who is out in Iraq right now. I believe he used the words "biggest modern lie" to describe his participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom. I support the troops, because they don't want to be out there, fighting so that someone who is rich can get richer off of them.
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For the record, the richest person in Iraq was Saddam Hussein - and he isn't getting any richer right now......... He lived in billion-dollar palaces while most of his people didn't even know about indoor plumbing. I'm not sure which "rich person getting richer" you are talking about - I can only be sure that it isn't Saddam or his family. With the rebuilding in Iraq - maybe all of the people get wealthier, since they won't be building palaces any longer - maybe they can afford some toilets, and training in proper sanitation, so the people end up better off and healthier.
A soldier who says what he thinks is not necessarily providing bona-fide facts. After world war II, there were a lot of conspiracy theorists who said that Hitler was still alive in Argentina! (Yes, veterans were making these reports!) But reading that in one of the papers every month did not make it true! And during the war, all of the media reported General Patton as saying that America and Britain would rule the post-war world. Point one: Yes, he really said it! Point two: It wasn't true - as the Soviets had something to say about it! So a three-star General could be wrong in what he thinks and says, but the guy interviewed in Iraq must certainly be accurate - isn't that obvious? (Sarcasm intended.)
You may be quoting one article, and perhaps your own step-dad - but you might just be reaching to claim that you are speaking for every single soldier in Iraq. Didn't you just claim that there isn't a single soldier in Iraq who is serving his nation without complaint? Am I the only one who suspects that scuh a claim isn't accurate????.........
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, the minute you scrape up enough change from under your couch to get me on the plane to Amsterdam, please let me know ASAP. You may think I'm bluffing, but I guarantee you-- I will not change my mind. I think that's what you guys are afraid of, and I think that's why I've never been accepted as a candidate.
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I don't own the site, and I don't administer it - so quit assuming that I run the place - I do not. You have heard me refer to him before - the owner is ThenLeave - that isn't the name of the site, it is the login name of the site owner. He may have more than one administrator, but I don't know that story. The point is - if you have something personal to say to ThenLeave - then do so. But quit blaming the rest of us in a hissy-fit when you didn't get your way. I never offered to give anyone any money - and I'm tired of being treated as though I did.
I am not the person who decides who is a "verified candidate" - but as a common poster, I think that I've pointed out some of the reasons that you were not made one. Yelling at me as though I personally made the decision on you, and did it deliberately to screw you, is ridiculous. "You guys" is lumping me in with other people, and I don't necessarily enjoy being blamed for something that I didn't do.
You were filing a complaint on the forum about not being a candidate - and I confess it freely - I was curious as to your circumstances. I just wondered if I could figure out why you were not one of the verified candidates. I stated why it is possible, but I'm not the authority, to be sure.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/25/03, 11:43 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
So, in other words, you're just waiting for the one person in America who hates it more than people in other
countries...
As far as lame excuses go, that's Number One.
I like how you say I have a lot of hate in my life, then you go on to say that I don't hate America enough.
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I'm not waiting for anything. I have no more power here than you do.
The point is: folks were saying that they legitimately hated America, and wanted to leave it for that reason. You have freely confessed that you are not one of these people, so I wonder about your term "lame excuses". If you weren't really one of those people - then why did you even apply? You are calling the site owner a liar - when you were one to start with! Your application said, "I really hate America" - and now you are saying, "No, I love America for several reasons!" You should make up your mind which side of fence you are going to be standing on........... And if "I love America" is what you are saying - then that is the point I think that our site owner was trying to make. That is, the folks who say that they truly hate America are full of hot air - they do not hate America, and they do not hate it enough to leave it for that reason. So you want to travel, so what? If hate isn't the reason - then be quiet.
I have no doubt at all that you are a person who wants to go overseas, and you want to find a way to force someone else to pay for it. But the fact that you cannot tell the truth to this site's owner is not my problem. Get a job.......keep a job........and don't bitch to me if you cannot afford to do all of the things that you want to do - because I cannot afford all of my dreams, either.
Finally - you have a lot of hate in your life - but that does not mean that any of it is toward our nation. In fact, I sense a great deal of hate toward me.........and all I have done is tried to figure out what in the heck you were talking about. Lots of hate......no good reason......
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 12:43 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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mcginty wrote:
Just admit that you're cheap, and that your site is a dud, and I'll be on my way.
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I never made you a guarantee, buddy. And it isn't my site.
But since you bring it up, which lawyer were you planning to hire to write up the contract by which you would guarantee not to return to America for a year? After saying, "I really hate America, so I need to be a candidate!", and then saying, "Well, I don't really hate this nation!" - are you claiming now that anyone should be taking your word for anything, Mr. Ledesma? If I were running the thing, I'd expect a written contract. You know, something that explained in hard words what penalty would be applied to you if you ended up lying..........most certainly more money than I'd be paying to get you over there......so that you'd pay more money to come home than you would to stay.......you know.......something FAIR.
And don't bother responding to that.......I'm sure that your answer goes something like, "just trust me", and if you decide to wimp out and come home early.......that's just my tough stuff, right? People who have money need to be "responsible" toward you, and give you free money - but the reverse is never true about you being responsible, right? That is "only if you feel like it......"
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 12:57 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
I knew, from the first e-mail, when I actually went out of my way to say I hated America (because at the time I was out of work and all that), that this was a farce. Every response you've given me confirms this.
In fact, thanks to you, I won $50 from a friend who bet me that this time I was going to get sent away for good. I bet him that you guys had no intention of sending anyone in the first place, and I was right.
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So what I am guessing as another poster on the forum is the same as what the site owner is thinking..............maybe I could sell that talent to the government!
Yes......you went out of your way to say you hated America, and now you say that you lied! So now, of course, you have the right to question everyone else's credibility.......because, after all, "it takes one to know one"!
Please identify your friend, so that I can talk to him - because he doesn't owe you $50 bucks. Anything that I am saying as just another poster is no proof whatsoever as to what the site owner "intended" to do. If you keep that money, James, you are guilty of fraud. To prove that someone "did not have an intention" in court, you need to do more than report what someone else on the forum has said, and you know it. So what did you bet on......really......? Whether you would get sent is a different bet entirely than if the owner really "intended to send someone" who wanted to leave the nation.
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:09 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
As for vacation, who takes year long vacations? I certainly don't. You said on your site ANYWHERE in the world, as long as it wasn't a terrorist-sponsoring country.
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My point exactly - and that is why folks would require a written contract to make it official. Otherwise, you could say, "I never agreed to go for a year", just like you said, "I really don't hate America......". The reason for the one-year requirement was to avoid a bunch of applications from folks who just wanted a free plane ride - and planned to come home right after their "vacation". As you have noted over and over.......some people lie.
I don't think that there is a dispute over Amsterdam, James, but like I said, I am not the person who makes any of those decisions. I hope that you understand that part of the situation is whether a nation would accept you - and that was what ThenLeave should have made more clear. For example, some folks don't think that North Korea sponsors terrorism..........but whether folks feel that way or not.......the point is that that nation does not have a tourism industry - you cannot get into North Korea without an explicit invitation to get in. So even if you wanted to go there.......no one could get you in unless the nation wanted to see you. The Netherlands is a lot easier to get into - so I don't see that as a problem.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:26 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
And are you going to give back the paltry $176.00 that you somehow managed to raise? Or was that out of your own pocket? Better yet-- you raised the money, and now you're claiming that it's yours.
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There is a thread labelled, "IMPORTANT QUESTION FROM ADMINISTRATOR" - started by ThenLeave. This is where the site's owner identified that he was giving up on the prospect of sending anyone out of America, because he couldn't find anyone who was serious. (His claim - not mine.)
The plan was to donate the money raised to a charity - but I don't think that the owner ever told us where the money ended up - maybe we can encourage him on that point, and get the information.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:37 am
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, I'll keep responding to your posts as long as you keep posting them. But you know you've lost, right? Despite your attempts to sound rational and civilized, the rest of your site speaks for itself. Everyone I have given the URL to-- even people who once felt the way you do-- have felt nauseated by the crappy stench of your version of patriotism.
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And despite my health problems, I'll keep trying to tell folks what I think as well. And I haven't lost - because there was nothing to win. I don't enter my opinion to win anything. This isn't a debate at old Cleveland High School - where you might get points for BS, Jimmy.
I won't debate about the main web site - as you are not the first to have read it as saying something differently than was intended. That is why we have so many threads that start out yelling at us, and end up a lot calmer. Maybe we can get ThenLeave to update it for clarity.....one last time.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:48 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
Don't split hairs here-- you people at this site are the ones saying "for or against." And since I am against what you are for, that makes me an America-hater. Therefore, by your own divisive logic, you MUST send me to Amsterdam, because I am against you and your "America-loving" crew.
Yes, it's black-and-white extremist logic, but it's that very same logic that enables people to say "If you don't like it here, then leave!"
On that note: I'd like to leave on October 24th of this year-- that's the day after my mother's birthday. She'd be terribly displeased if I missed her birthday. I don't want to fly on United or American, though-- something about those airlines gives me the creeps...
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I'm not splitting hairs - I'm saying what I think as another poster on the forum - why does that annoy you so much? The point is that "American hater" comes from the heart - and not from someone else's opinion of you. A black person saying "racist" does not make someone a racist - but acting as a racist makes someone a racist. It is that simple. What seems to make you angry is when other people behave like they want to.......and say how they feel, instead of behaving the way you believe we should behave. Doesn't that make you look kinda "prejudiced"? I mean........"I know how you think"......"I know how you feel"......."I know what 'you people' do in such situations" - that is prejudiced - and if I said it to a person of a different race, I'm sure that they would be mad about it. James Ledesma doesn't have any more rights than anyone else............so quit acting as though other people are less than you, mentally.
No one has ever said, "If you don't like it here, then leave!" What the owner has said is, "If you hate America, and want to leave it - maybe we can help." You see, you are claiming that leaving the nation is our idea - and it is supposed to be the idea of the person who is leaving. Now by your own "divisive logic", no one has to send you anywhere - because you claim it is 100% the owner's decision, and no one else's. And if you truly believe that, then you should shut up - because it is his decision, and no one else's. Now let me take it out of your words, and put it into my own - since I'm not part of site ownership. "The site owner is the boss. He does what he wants, and you are not his boss. If you have a dispute that is valid - hire an attorney. That is how you actually "win" this kind of thing. If you want to prove that you are right - then take him to court and prove it. Anything less is pure BS."
Speaking of "black and white extremist logic" - you said that you wanted to go to Amsterdam this summer.......so why are you still here? Pardon my sarcasm, but you really don't strike me as being very serious about leaving if you are still in America months after you absolutely, positively, had to go.......... And now you bring up your mother's birthday - what does that have to do with anything? If ThenLeave had sent you to Amsterdam for a year in June.......then you wouldn't have been here for her birthday......would you? So it didn't matter before, and you said so.......so why does it matter now? People in their late-20's or early-30's are adults now - so guess what? Your mommy should be able to live without you there this year - just like you planned for yourself when you asked to leave this summer, right? You graduated from high school eleven years ago - so you do a few things without mommy's permission, right? (If you could afford a round trip flight to visit mommy for her birthday - then you can afford your own one-way ticket to Amsterdam - so go! And stop whining......)
And all of the sudden, you want to pick your airline - my, oh, my! I thought that ThenLeave was the guy who made that decision. There is no guarantee anywhere on the site, stated or implied, that the person leaving gets to choose the transportation company. Sounds like you are just setting yourself up for another, "They won't do it right!" bitch-and-moan session about the decisions. So you want to leave, but only 100% on your terms, whether that was put in writing or not - and you want to exclude two of the airlines that provide the shortest flights at the best prices. (Yes, I checked.) From what I'm seeing - you don't seem to want to go - or you would have gone already. This thread is just another "finger pointing exercise" - where you blame someone else for your own wimpy little ability to not do what you want.
(Where do you work? Have you told your employer of your plans to leave the country next month, or are you lying about that to stay in good with the boss?)
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 3:17 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, I'll keep responding to your posts as long as you keep posting them.
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Well, I have taken a break for a couple of days - are you going to answer, or not??????????
(I beg your pardon if you have been taken out by health reasons, like I do sometimes. But it seems that your fire on this thread has been extinguished. Has it?)
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/29/03, 1:43 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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Um...
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donrosenberger, you state repeatedly that this is not your site, that you don't make the decisions, that you are just a common poster. Then you go on to explain in almost three pages of posts what the point of this site is and why mcginty did not qualify for the trip out of the country. Can't blame him for being confused. Why don't you let the site's owner speak for himself? If he can be bothered.
Talk about beating a dead horse. You are all over this board speaking for the owner. Why don't you just get over it and move on with your life?
Last edited by BigRed, 10/7/03, 1:10 am
10/7/03, 1:07 am Send PM to BigRed
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Take a dose of your own medicine
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So.............
Basically, if someone says anything to criticize the owner of the forum, then they are allowed to do that, because of the ethic called "freedom of speech".
But if anyone wishes to support the site owner, and tells someone that they are "mistaken" in their twisted beliefs and criticisms, then they are not allowed to do that....... And the reason for this is simple enough: it is because BigRed now speaks as the owner of the site, and makes all of the decisions. Huh????????
Three points:
1. sexmcginty stated that he would reply to every post, as long as we kept posting. So where is he? I am not the site's owner - but I have the same freedom of speech as anyone else. Leftists who do not believe in freedom of speech for all should not come here preaching about freedom of speech. (I have the firm belief that if sexmcginty had spent five pages, and 50 posts, making criticism of the site owner - then BigRed would not have said a thing about it. Sounds like a clear case of discrimination to me.........................)
2. I'm still anxious to hear as to whether James Ledesma (sexmcginty) has notified his employer of his plans to leave the nation. I mean........if he is truly serious about departure for at least a year........shouldn't his boss know about it, so that James can be replaced at work? I can hear the silence....................... But somehow - I'm sure that this "silence" means that he can come back later, and claim that he did not lose the argument. So get the gist - if you say that you are going to answer every point - and then run away to hide - then you are not a truly "verified candidate". When you run away from the effort to verify you, even when it is conducted by other posters, then you're not a real candidate, and anyone reading the forum can see it.
3. Everyone else has stopped discussing this point - so why are you here, offering your two cents way too late? To quote another poster on the forum: "Talk about beating a dead horse........ Why don't you just get over it and move on with your life?"
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/8/03, 3:15 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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Re: Um...
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BigRed wrote:
Can't blame him for being confused. Why don't you let the site's owner speak for himself?
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I am not stopping the site owner from doing any speaking. The site owner has the same freedom of speech as any other poster. So perhaps the site owner believes that I am telling the truth.....or the site owner would take the time to post a statement saying that I am wrong, now wouldn't he??? (That is the argument posters use when they criticize the site owner, now isn't it? You like it when the argument works for you.......so get used to it when the same argument works against you!)
Now on the same line of your argument........why are you even here? Why can't you leave things alone, and let sexmcginty speak for himself? If James still has a point to make, then let him do it! If it is wrong for me to help one side of the conversation, then it is wrong for you to chime in on the other side .........and that is by your own rules, and not because I said so.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/8/03, 3:25 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
ThenLeave
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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BigRed...Don does a great job of speaking for what this site is about. He expresses my views (as the real site owner) quite well. I see no point in stating my views if they have already been expressed. I stated a long time ago that this forum was built for users of the site only. I did not want to get involved...if you have a question for me...try the e-mail link.
10/10/03, 11:35 pm Send Email to ThenLeave Send PM to ThenLeave
get out
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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Now that I think about it, it's not the country I hate.
I don't hate America, and I don't hate Americans in specific.
Anyway, I'd like a ticket to Amsterdam. Who knows? Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave. But I was hoping to go by the summer, and now it's Fall, and I was the one who had to come to you guys THREE TIMES already.
All statements made by sexmcginty.
You must hate America to qualify for the offer.
What part of that don't you understand?
You can ask as many times as you want, but you might want to consider www.freevacationairfare.com
Then leave is not about handing out airline tickets to every person that asks.
YOU MUST MEET THE CRITERIA FOR THE OFFER.
You have PROVEN in your posts that you do NOT qualify.
What I'm trying to understand is WHY there are so many people claiming to hate America when there is a possibility for a free ticket, but later say they don't hate America or it's people?
Maybe you are just mad because your attempt to get a free ticket without the qualifications has failed.
10/12/03, 11:03 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
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My two cents:
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Well........here's my two cents:
It appears that sexmcginty and others have made a rampant assumption. That is, they hate free speech - and specifically, what ThenLeave has to say. And as people who hate free speech - they assume that anyone who disagrees with them must be unAmerican.
Now they transfer this assumption incorrectly to ThenLeave, and claim that if they disagree with the site in any way, then they must be viewed as unAmerican. This web site does not do this assessment, the leftists do this incorrectly to themselves - and since they oppose free speech, they detest it when one of us points out that their self-assessment is incorrect!
You may have noticed that BigRed has put his two cents in as well - basically, telling me that the only people who should be on the discussion forum are the site owner and the people who oppose him. That is fairly one-sided logic, but I seem to recall that BigRed claimed to be a lawyer. So perhaps the one-sided logic should not surprise me coming from that profession.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/12/03, 6:49 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: My two cents:
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Usually, my e-mail service alerts me to when a reply has come in. For the last few posts, this has not been the case. Since I have a life that has nothing to do with this site, I haven't been responding.
But every time I leave the site and come back after a while, I notice certain things. Like, the candidates list staying the same. Or the amount of money raised staying the same. And now, an administrator's note asking if it's worth it to keep the site going.
By the way: Thank you, Big Red, for pointing out Mr. Rosenberger's fanatical fervor in his line-by-line refutation of my post. Indeed, Rosenberger, I "got your goat" and put you on the defensive in a massive way... and all I had to do was post my thoughts. Maybe it was that line you posted at the end of every one of your posts, about defeating people with reason... maybe I took that to heart, and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
I don't expect you to concede: only an honorable opponent would do that.
I suspect that this will be my last post, not because I have nothing left to say, but because I don't think this site or this message board will even be here the next time I visit it.
Thanks for the memories...
SUPPORT THE TROOPS-- BRING THEM HOME!!
IMPEACH BUSH!!
WWW.REALANSWERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
get out
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A special response for sexmcginty
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If you had actually taken the time to read other posts on this site, you will notice that Don Rosenbereger answers almost all posts in that same line by line manner. You have not "gotten his goat". You have merely received the "standard response".
Also, the thread from the administrator is not a new post. It is a post which has been made "sticky" to put it at the top of the list so the liberals can find it. We were hoping you would look at the date and be able to figure that out.
If you look at the bottom of the screen underneath the spot that you type your reply, you must check the box behind "get notifications when someone replies?" in order for your e-mail service to do the right thing.
You seem to be quite eager to claim a victory which hasn't been won. (not even close!!) The only thing you've been able to accomplish is to make yourself look like a fool if front of your BLOG friends that are supposed to be watching you "beat down" ThenLeave. Your random musings and lack of substance in your posts shows everyone that you have not taken the time to research what you are trying to oppose.
We have, however, extended an invitation for you to debate with us if you like. Just set your arrogant attitude aside & we can get to business.
Last edited by get out, 10/21/03, 8:15 am
10/21/03, 7:52 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Yes, I would love to debate you and whomever feels the need to be debated. How about me vs. Rosenberger, Get Out, and everyone else who feels the need to defend this site against... little ol' me?
A bunch of message board guys against one man-- and yet I'm the one who is told that he looks like a fool. Ain't that rich?
If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd notice that I said that every time I come to this site, your ship is sinking further and further. That's the victory I claim, and as I said before-- I don't expect people like you to condcede the point.
So, what's the topic of the debate then? Should we debate about what you and your Patriot Posse have been going back and forth with me over for some time, namely this website's inability to reach even a modest goal? If that's the topic of the debate, then I have already won, by virtue of making it an issue.
Should we debate the hypocrisy of conservatives who embrace Arnold Schwarzenegger but decry Hollywood's "liberal elite"?
Should we debate the hypocrisy of Rush Limbaugh?
Should we debate how Democrats and Republicans are virtually one and the same nowadays?
Should we debate the Supreme Court upholding the 9th Circuit ruling concerning doctors writing out medical marijuana prescriptions?
Should we debate the meaning of the phrase "America: Love it or Leave it"?
Should we debate Bush's CIA leak, or his war on Iraq while North Korea calls us out?
A few questions: where is the debate going to be held? On neutral turf, I would assume. Yet somehow I suspect that it'll be on your turf. No matter.
Who will moderate the debate? That is, who is objective enough to perform such a task? Certainly no one I know and certainly no one you know...
Who will present the resolution, and who will decide when our opening statements, rebuttals, and conclusions are timed out?
That's when the real "beat down" (as you put it) begins, by the way-- everything I've done up until now has been a prelude. I'm just getting warmed up.
10/21/03, 11:24 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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As you probably know, by visiting other discussion forums, that debates do not necessarily result in a resolution. I certainly don't expect to agree with you, nor do I ever think you will agree with me.
You may have noticed on other sites, if you are not agreed with, your posts are likely to be deleted. You may have also noticed that your posts on this site have not, even though myself or others have not agreed with your statements.
Although there was very little money raised, the point that was made is that there were actually very few people who claimed that they hated America and what it stands for so bad that they wanted to leave. Others were looking for a free ticket to their vacation choice, and didn't meet the qualifying criteria. Those who "made the grade" suddenly had second thoughts, and backed away from the offer. There were indeed more funds available on a private level, those of us who were waiting for a qualified candidate to be selected before making the donation.
This is not about defending this site against "little 'ol you", simply because that is how I view you, as little. You make statements in your BLOG like you're all that, and you don't even begin to impress me, and I would suspect many other people you see as your followers see right through you. If you take some more time to view other posts, you will find there are many posters who have varying viewpoints who have freely discussed issues here.
Your post was read, but the ship is not sinking. The search for a qualified candidate has evidently been terminated quite some time ago, due to a lack of qualified candidates, and qualified candidates who backed out of the offer. This forum has been left open to discuss topics of whatever we choose. Yes, this includes you as well. This ship is a discussion forum, and is quite buoyant. This is not a right vs. left website, although there are several right vs. left topics.
quote:
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So, what's the topic of the debate then? Should we debate about what you and your Patriot Posse have been going back and forth with me over for some time, namely this website's inability to reach even a modest goal? If that's the topic of the debate, then I have already won, by virtue of making it an issue.
Should we debate the hypocrisy of conservatives who embrace Arnold Schwarzenegger but decry Hollywood's "liberal elite"?
Should we debate the hypocrisy of Rush Limbaugh?
Should we debate how Democrats and Republicans are virtually one and the same nowadays?
Should we debate the Supreme Court upholding the 9th Circuit ruling concerning doctors writing out medical marijuana prescriptions?
Should we debate the meaning of the phrase "America: Love it or Leave it"?
Should we debate Bush's CIA leak, or his war on Iraq while North Korea calls us out?
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Sure. Let's get started. But let's debate facts.
quote:
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A few questions: where is the debate going to be held? On neutral turf, I would assume. Yet somehow I suspect that it'll be on your turf. No matter.
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If "no matter", why bother with the question? I would like to think this is neutral turf, and it certainly isn't my turf, considering it is cyberspace. If you are feeling outnumbered, on behalf of myself and others in this forum, a personal invitation is offered for you to invite your friends here to help debate issues.
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Who will moderate the debate? That is, who is objective enough to perform such a task? Certainly no one I know and certainly no one you know...
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I would suspect if either knows, then it will be likely that no moderation will exist.
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Who will present the resolution, and who will decide when our opening statements, rebuttals, and conclusions are timed out?
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That would be the moderators job once again. I guess we'll have to work it out on our own.
10/22/03, 9:39 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Blah Blah Blah Blah... All you had to say was "Yes, let's debate."
Since you didn't pick a topic, let me pull out the obvious one:
The war in Iraq.
Specifically: President Bush announced an end to fighting in Iraq earlier this year. This was before he requested $87 billion from Congress. Does the request for $87 billion put his former assurances in another light? Or is the request for &87 billion par for the course in terms of post-war nation-building?
I will let you start the debate with an opening statement. As soon as I receive notification of a reply, I will prepare and post my opening statement. After the openers, we will go back and forth, rebutting each others' statements. Finally, we will end the debate with closing arguments.
You may fire when ready, sir.
10/23/03, 10:37 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
WVUMedGuy
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Adding all this structure to the debates.............Mr. McGinty must be a lawyer...................
10/23/03, 11:59 am Send Email to WVUMedGuy Send PM to WVUMedGuy
get out
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I think we both know the 87 billion will be exceeded. Regardless of Bush's announcement, the fighting continues. Off the front, the battle will also continue, while decisions are made about who has the current interest in Iraq's finance to be involved in the rebuild.
10/27/03, 7:58 pm Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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http://www.msnbc.com/news/985304.asp
10/28/03, 6:58 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
get out
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http://www.rferl.org/iraq-report/
10/28/03, 10:42 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
Smcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1027-05.htm
btw: I had to sign up again for this board... for some reason I was not allowed to log in.
Also: posting links is fine, but when am I going to get an opening statement from whomever wants to debate? And by 'opening statement', I mean exactly that: a paragraph (in the very least) that details ALL of the points you want to make in the course of debate.
10/28/03, 11:08 am Send Email to Smcginty Send PM to Smcginty
donrosenberger
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quote:
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mcginty wrote:
Usually, my e-mail service alerts me to when a reply has come in. For the last few posts, this has not been the case. Since I have a life that has nothing to do with this site, I haven't been responding.
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Bullshit. You are a liar and a fraud.
No one put a gun to your head, and told you that you had to respond to every post - that was your idea. You said that as long as someone was posting, you would keep answering.
But if you insist on ThenLeave answering your questions, then why don't you answer mine? Does your boss know of your plans to leave the nation? Yes or no?
Why don't you answer any of my questions or posts. (And an insult is not an answer - that just shows that your mind is not capable of anything but insults.) You have shown that you don't want to argue the points - you want to attack the messenger. And I've seen people like that before - we don't need you here. If you keep claiming that you are too busy, then go away, and don't come back.
---
http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 9:24 pm
donrosenberger
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quote:
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mcginty wrote:
But every time I leave the site and come back after a while, I notice certain things. Like, the candidates list staying the same. Or the amount of money raised staying the same. And now, an administrator's note asking if it's worth it to keep the site going.
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The site found that the number of "verified" candidates kept going down - mostly because people like you were never serious about leaving. (And if you truly were serious about leaving America because you hate it........then why don't you leave? ThenLeave offered to help people leave - but there is no law whatsoever that says you cannot leave unless ThenLeave helps you.)
The "administrator's note" that you refer to was posted back in June........months before you came to ThenLeave, you idiot! One of your blogs claims that ThenLeave started to fold up after you decided to "tear us some new ones". Why don't you wake up, and look at the dates that things are posted before you make any claims about shutting us down?
I have been after ThenLeave, on and off, about updating the main site to reflect that we're mainly here for the chat - but do you know what? He has a real life that has nothing to do with this site. (Now where have I heard someone say something like that before????) So what I am hearing is this: It is OK for you to break promises that you made in writing just because you feel like it. But it is not OK for the site owner to live his life (he never promised to do otherwise) because you don't feel like allowing him to do so! Sounds really fair to me..................
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 9:35 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
By the way: Thank you, Big Red, for pointing out Mr. Rosenberger's fanatical fervor in his line-by-line refutation of my post. Indeed, Rosenberger, I "got your goat" and put you on the defensive in a massive way... and all I had to do was post my thoughts. Maybe it was that line you posted at the end of every one of your posts, about defeating people with reason... maybe I took that to heart, and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
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I disagree, big time.
James Ledesma.......none of the liberals have ever gotten my goat. (Except for the pervert who raped some of my livestock..........was that you, James?) If you post a ton of false items - then I'll tend to post a ton of the truth. Don't lie, and I won't have to post the truth. Perhaps you were hoping that the site was already down.....and that you could look good on your own blog by feeding a bunch of lies with no one here to dispute with you. It must have been very disappointing to find that someone was actually here to dispute your claims. You are talking about me on your BLOG, and I am not talking about you on mine........so let's think about who is getting whose goat, shall we???????
You posted your thoughts, and I posted mine. You were wrong, and I was right - proven by the fact that you have not responded to the issues that I raised during my rebuttals. (If I was wrong......then why not correct me, rather than running away like a little baby!) Your words above were that my postings were a "line-by-line refutation" of your posts - and I thank you for that compliment - since "refutation" means "to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous".
Why would I be on the defensive in the first place, James? I'm posting my full name when I login. I'm not trying to hide behind an e-mail address name that tells no one who I am.......... If you are so darned proud of your own opinions, then why did someone else have to announce to the forum who you were? (My apologies to any allies who take this point personally.........but if you have nothing to fear within your ideas........you don't need a fancy login name.)
Where is BigRed now that you need him? He shot his mouth off once because someone dared to speak up for the site's owner - and then he disappeared again. Maybe he thinks that I might start listing his real name, address, etc.......and I'm thinking about it..........
As for my signature line - postings with "reason" is what Jim Lau is talking about. Not the easily refutable crap that you tend to specialize in.
---
http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 10:00 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
I don't expect you to concede: only an honorable opponent would do that.
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You have mentioned that your claims were all refuted (look it up in the dictionary), so why would I need to concede after you have admitted defeat?
You have not conceded formally.........and I guess that has something to say about how honorable you are, too!
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 10:06 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
Yes, I would love to debate you and whomever feels the need to be debated. How about me vs. Rosenberger, Get Out, and everyone else who feels the need to defend this site against... little ol' me?
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"Little" is the word for it.
Why don't you start a new thread, and debate folks to your heart's content over there?
You have claimed on your BLOG that if that site goes down, that is ONE SMALL BUT IMPORTANT VICTORY for unpopular speech in this country. So perhaps someone should tell you that you are working against yourself. (Not very smart to do that......now is it?) I mean......you want this site to die - but you are offering to keep debates going to insure that it does not die. Are you thereby claiming to be "smarter" than us......while trying to help us keep the site going?
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 10:45 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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quote:
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Smcginty wrote:
Also: posting links is fine, but when am I going to get an opening statement from whomever wants to debate? And by 'opening statement', I mean exactly that: a paragraph (in the very least) that details ALL of the points you want to make in the course of debate.
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Why do any of us have to provide any points to debate? If you have something to say, then say it! Since you are not the owner of this site - then stop bossing people around.
Keep posting.........it helps this site survive!
---
http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 11:11 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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All I know is, when someone posts SIX replies to one post, in the span of two hours, then indeed my work is done.
Plus, those six replies were to a post that I had directed at Get Out.
You lose, buddy, no matter how you stack the cards.
10/29/03, 7:28 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
get out
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We have not lost here, even though you seem to be quite willing to accept some b.s. victory that has not been earned or achieved. This forum is alive and well, and will continue to function. If you are so intent to debate here, why don't YOU make an opening statement on any issue and show us that YOU have adequate knowledge to debate. I have read all your posts here, and all I see is that you are willing to post links, claim un-won victories, and argue with people about the way they answer posts. We have had plenty of people who have posted their comments about what they like or dislike about the website and the forum, and many have debated their points. Others, such as yourself so far, have come in, spewing their b.s. about how they don't like us and never actually get to a valid point, other than points that have already been made by others, particularily the liberal media (nbc, newsweek) So make your point, present an issue.
10/29/03, 8:57 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
donrosenberger
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quote:
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mcginty wrote:
All I know is, when someone posts SIX replies to one post, in the span of two hours, then indeed my work is done.
Plus, those six replies were to a post that I had directed at Get Out.
You lose, buddy, no matter how you stack the cards.
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All that I know is..........when I refute all of someone's points to an item, and they refuse to debate the item further - then they have not won.
Oh.......and if someone donates an incredible amount of space to my name in their on-line BLOG - and haven't even earned a mention on one of my sites........ then someone has gotten someone else's goat. Thanks for the ton of free publicity. I can now use your web site as an example of blatant discrimination against the handicapped. You don't lose very well, now, do you little boy?
Does your boss know that you spend company time on company machines to do your BLOG? (Thanks for confessing to that in writing, by the way. I look forward to talking to your boss about that.)
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/31/03, 4:39 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Hey, I'm just here to help. Glad you appreciate the "publicity" you've been getting.
You know, that blog entry took me a whole ten minutes to write. I type fast, what can I say? As for space, I devote just as much of it to anything else that I find worth writing about. You should be flattered that I deemed it a sufficiently writable topic.
I defy you to find a disparaging remark about the handicapped in that entry. As far as I can tell, I mentioned that the character of "Don Rosenberger" was in a wheelchair. How is this making fun of the handicapped? To make fun of the handicapped, one has to make the affliction look ridiculous. All I did was describe a character, based on what I imagined the character to be like. By titling the entry "a little creative fiction", it is clear to anyone who reads it that the story is made up.
And you still haven't tried to make a point against MY debate topic, which was in regards to the $87 Billion from Congress. But I don't expect you to get back to that-- you're too busy trying to get me in trouble to actually follow your own rules. And that tells me that I got your goat metaphorically-- I don't know why you had the image of having sex with your livestock on your mind in the first place, unless my suspicions about you are true.
We can keep going back and forth over this until the metaphorical cows come in. "Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
Mr. Blonde, "Reservoir Dogs"
10/31/03, 7:16 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
get out
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You have mentioned the 87 billion from congress, but have made no statements regarding your views, only links of what the liberal media thinks. What are your thoughts?? Who knows, maybe some of us will agree with you.
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mcginty wrote:
I defy you to find a disparaging remark about the handicapped in that entry. As far as I can tell, I mentioned that the character of "Don Rosenberger" was in a wheelchair. How is this making fun of the handicapped? To make fun of the handicapped, one has to make the affliction look ridiculous. All I did was describe a character, based on what I imagined the character to be like. By titling the entry "a little creative fiction", it is clear to anyone who reads it that the story is made up.
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Copies have been made of entries here and on the BLOG. In both locations, you have accused me of committing illegal acts. (And on the other thread of this forum, you did absolutely nothing to say that it was "creative fiction".) So sedacious libel applies.
Why don't you make it possible for me to make entries to your BLOG, so that I can entertain you as much there as I do here? Or is it possible that you cannot tolerate anyone disagreeing with you at all?
And I don't have to find a "disparaging remark" on your site.........putz. Because everyone else that is involved with disability rights, and who sees your site, agrees with me. You cannot see it because you don't want to see it. It is not disparaging to you.......because you think it is the truth about disabled individuals. Show it to your boss, and ask him to login here, and send me a PM or e-mail about how nice it is.............
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
11/4/03, 10:11 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
Smcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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I'm back again...
You need to bone up on your libel laws. You don't have a case. If you ever decided to do something as boneheaded and stupid as trying to file a libel case, suffice it to say that I have enough evidence-- on this very site-- of you doing the same to me, thus prompting a counter-suit.
However, no self-respecting judge in their right mind would hear a libel case based on blogs and message boards.
Just wanted to let you know that I haven't backed down-- I'm just doing what I've done since I found this place-- checking in occasionally, getting you mad, and laughing.
But just to show you that I'm not a monster, I sent a post to The Administrator, and he responded with a nice, decent reply. I fully expected that man to attack me-- after all, he started this site --but instead he showed that he was open-minded... unlike you, dear sir.
Anyway, I'll check back in two months and find three pages of replies from you, based on one or two sentences from me. And I'll laugh as I always do.
11/17/03, 9:04 pm Send Email to Smcginty Send PM to Smcginty
donrosenberger
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Smcginty wrote:
You need to bone up on your libel laws. You don't have a case. If you ever decided to do something as boneheaded and stupid as trying to file a libel case, suffice it to say that I have enough evidence-- on this very site-- of you doing the same to me, thus prompting a counter-suit.
However, no self-respecting judge in their right mind would hear a libel case based on blogs and message boards.
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Fine. Then just keep doing what you are doing. Because it only makes my case stronger. The more you deny that you did anything wrong........the stronger the case that you have done this discrimination on purpose.
Name-calling is not a basis for a case - but you have accused me of breaking into and using one of your e-mail accounts. That is a crime - and accusing me of doing so when you know that I haven't is also a crime. If you doubt that, just ask one of the policemen at the precinct down the street............
If you would like to be in court, then that suits me fine. Please file first, if you want to. You mentioned that a judge would not listen to such a case - but you must first realize that thousands of dollars in legal fees would accumulate before either of us made it before a judge. And if you are curious......the answer is that I can easily afford that amount to make a case. Can you? You might wish to laugh at me later, and let your BLOG readers know about how much money you have cost me in court for my loss. But it will cost you money, too, buddy. And I think that the costs will hurt you a lot more than they will hurt me.
You also need to bone up on your legal studies. You see, part of what you have done is discrimination against the handicapped. And there is no statute of limitations upon those actions. So I don't have to come after you right now.......I can wait until later, and take whatever savings you have built up between now and then. If you think that you can beat the rap, then just keep discriminating! I encourage it! Maybe you can hire "Baghdad Bob" to be your defence counsel:
And you need to also bone up on your libel law, James. Personal opinion is not libel. But stating in writing that I have committed a crime (messing with your e-mail account) is libelous if I can prove that I did not do it.
(And if you are curious, we have already subpoenaed the records from hotmail.com for your logins from that period, and can show that the only IP addresses that accessed your accounts were close to you, and not close to me.)
You need to study your libel laws. Try looking at this site: Slander and Libel Laws
So I'm not going to spend a lot of time here arguing with you over whether you are guilty. Because you are guilty. Work hard, and save as much money as you can - the more, the better! I hope you'll get a big laugh out of losing your money.
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I'm also waiting to hear from your boss - so that we can talk about your openly discriminatory behavior on office equipment that he owns. Maybe it is time for me to hire a private investigator - and seek you and your boss out, personally. Then I don't have to worry about him looking for me.........because I'll be looking for him!
And as I said above - I don't have to do it now.....or next week......or even next year. Because there is no statute of limitations on your actions.
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
11/26/03, 2:57 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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It all boils down to one very simple thing: freedom of speech. In my blog, I explicitly stated that it was a work of fiction. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. This is a point I make to everyone who reads my bog. I am not a journalist, and therefore have no obligation to report hard facts.
The administrator of a rock band's website once read my blog, which referenced their band. He/she liked my piece and wanted to reproduce it on their blog. I said "Sure, as long as you run a disclaimer stating that it is entertainment, and not journalism." They haven't reproduced my entry yet, and they probably never will. Maybe if I had not demanded a disclaimer they would have published it as "fact". The disclaimer saves people a lot of time and energy.
The fact is, if you don't like what I say in my blog, don't visit it. If you want to comment on my blog, go right ahead. If I want to write a fictional story about a person whose name can be found via a simple Google search, that is up to me.
As for accusing you of a crime: I put forth a theory based purely on speculation, in a fictional context. If you didn't do it, then there's no problem, right? Who on this message board would take my side over yours? What are you so worried about? If I'd thought you were the culprit, I would've already called the cops on you.
Sounds like a guilty conscience to me.
11/26/03, 3:09 pm
So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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...and there hasn't been any donations in months.
It's not surprising, of course. At best, this concept was suited for non-success from the onset. At worst, the stunning magnitude of its utter failure is an indication that one should not try to keep up with the zeitgeists. The fact is, in another year, no one will care about who is more patriotic and what to do about terrorism.
In another year, we will all be back to caring only for ourselves.
I look forward to that.
9/18/03, 8:39 pm Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
WVUMedGuy
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Geez, yet another person who doesnt bother to read the other threads before they post crap about the site being unsuccessful.
Hey Don, do you have the standard response ready to copy and paste?????
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Standard reply?
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Well.......considering how many times I have had to use the answer, I probably should develop a "standard" response to that kind of post - but I see that as more of the owner's problem, or one for the administrators. I'm just another poster.
Two main points:
1. The owner of this site did not intend to have anyone "sent away" against their will. The owner was tired of hearing people say that they hated America, and that they wanted to leave our nation - so he was offering to give them money to do it. No force intended or implied - ThenLeave was trying to help someone do what they claimed they wanted to do already.
This question has been posed before, and answered several times by several posters. (That is why WVUMedGuy was wondering if we had a standard response as yet - since it seems to be the first, and often the only, question that a newbie leftist asks on this forum.)
Look over other threads, and you will see that the question has been asked and answered before, and more than once. The last poster to make the challenge was chthonicplatypus, in a topic named Why the xenophobia? That thread should be relatively easy to find under the TOPIC listings when you look at the main page of the forum.
2. After months of making the challenge, the forum's owner found out that the folks who claimed to hate America were all talk, and no action. Time after time, a leftist turned down a chance to leave the United States, even when ThenLeave offered money to help them. (So the number of people on the "volunteer to leave" list kept shrinking.....) Therefore, ThenLeave ceased collecting money for the enterprise - and has donated the funds collected to a charity. This is why no money has been collected lately.
Note that the failure was not on the part of this site's owner - but upon the leftists who were claiming that they wanted to leave the country! If they had been serious about their claims, then some of them would have left. By not leaving, these leftists merely proved what the "regulars" on this forum knew already: America is a great country! Who would want to live anywhere else?
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/19/03, 12:02 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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I'm quite aware of the posts and threads-- I applied to be sent away months ago. Not only was I not added to your candidates list (which hasn't changed since I first applied) but I seriously doubted that you guys would be able to raise the money to send even ONE person away. I wrote this out in an e-mail, and of course I got no response from you guys. I see that my doubts were founded in solid reasoning.
I read about "Doug" whom you list as having "changed his mind" about leaving the country. Someone sent an e-mail in, saying that they would be happy to drive "Doug" to his desired location (it was in the continental U.S.) and save the site some money in the process. HOW CHEAP IS THAT? Not to mention the fact that anyone who would accept a ride from a person who most likely is intolerant of their political beliefs would have to be insane to do so.
No, I am not "Doug"-- I am Sex McGinty, and I've been checking up on you guys from time to time. Your high-faltuin' verbiage aside, there is no justification for this failure of a website.
Sold any American-flag-themed coffee mugs lately?
Last edited by mcginty, 9/19/03, 3:12 pm
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ThenLeave
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McGinty...While I don't remember getting an e-mail specifically from you (there have been hundreds) maybe it was too full of ranting for us to spend time reading every word. We have received so many that start "Hey Asshole..." that we tend to tune out after a sentence or two. Sorry that I missed you though (ha-ha).
However, I have to agree with Don that this site was a success in that it proved (at some level) that this country shouldn't be hated by it's residents. This is the best country in the world. If you disagree with the state of the country...then change it. Don't whine like a child and do nothing.
PS: I have one of the coffee mugs and it is quite nice.
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Hey, mcginty: Now that I know a few more details, and you are claiming that e-mail has failed your purposes, I am now curious.........
Why do you hate America? Don't talk about Bush, or about side-issues - because the basis for getting money from ThenLeave was that you hate America itself, and wish to leave it. So why do you want to leave, and where do you want to go? (Perhaps part of the answer will reveal why you were not taken seriously as a candidate!)
You are claiming that ThenLeave didn't listen to you earlier, so here is your chance to have me listen to you now. How about some specifics on your case? I mean, if you are really that desperate to leave a nation that you hate - maybe we can still find a way to help you out........
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First of all, the thing I hate the most is how people like yourself are marginalizing people like myself, by drawing a line in the sand and saying "You are either for us or against us." That is the most anti-American thing I can imagine, but you wrap yourself around the Flag and tell anyone who dissents that they are wrong. That is not what America is about. If it weren't for political dissent, America would still be an English colony.
However, I also agree that people like yourself have the right to voice your opinions. Hell, the KKK has the right to voice their opinions, even if I don't agree with them. And, of course, I have the right to voice mine. That's what I love about America.
Now that I think about it, it's not the country I hate-- it's the tactics of people like you. Notice how I didn't say that I hate you in particular-- I don't know you, and for all I know you may be a nice person outside of your poltical beliefs. But just look at your conditions for listening to my reasons: don't mention Bush and the economy? Why do you not want to hear about that? It seems to me that you are living life with blinders on.
Anyway, I'd like a ticket to Amsterdam. Who knows? Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave. But I was hoping to go by the summer, and now it's Fall, and I was the one who had to come to you guys THREE TIMES already. And what about the other "candidates?" If they really have all changed their minds, as you claim, then why haven't you updated your site to reflect this? It seems to me that you have no faith in your own convictions. Therefore, anything you say to me at this point is entirely without credibilty.
I don't hate America, and I don't hate Americans in specific-- I hate the actions of ignorant Americans who make me feel ashamed for living under the same umbrella as them. You do not speak for me, just as I do not speak for you. But get real-- Iraq was a bad idea, and now my stepfather has to stay out there until May, instead coming home to his wife (my mother) and his kids in October like Bush promised. He's a reserve, and was proud to do his time, but if you ask me a real hero and a real patriot stays at home and raises their kids and takes care of his loved ones. That's all the proof I need from him to call him a hero.
How many friends and family do you have out there in Iraq? I'm assuming that you have at least one cousin or nephew who wishes he or she were home, indulging in the creature comforts that war-mongers like yourself take for granted.
I support the troops- read the L.A Times article from that soldier who is out in Iraq right now. I believe he used the words "biggest modern lie" to describe his participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom. I support the troops, because they don't want to be out there, fighting so that someone who is rich can get richer off of them.
Anyway, the minute you scrape up enough change from under your couch to get me on the plane to Amsterdam, please let me know ASAP. You may think I'm bluffing, but I guarantee you-- I will not change my mind. I think that's what you guys are afraid of, and I think that's why I've never been accepted as a candidate.
For the third time,
Sex McGinty
sexmcginty@hotmail.com
ps: I'm sure the mugs are quite nice-- and I'm sure there's hundreds of them, sitting in unopened boxes, begging to be sold on eBay...
Last edited by mcginty, 9/22/03, 6:50 pm
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mcginty wrote:
Now that I think about it, it's not the country I hate-- it's the tactics of people like you. Notice how I didn't say that I hate you in particular-- I don't know you, and for all I know you may be a nice person outside of your poltical beliefs. But just look at your conditions for listening to my reasons: don't mention Bush and the economy? Why do you not want to hear about that? It seems to me that you are living life with blinders on.
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OK - there is a lot of hate in your life........I get that part of it.
But I hope that you can see in your first sentence above why you were not taken seriously as a candidate. That is, the basis of the "candidate list" was for people who really, truly "HATE AMERICA" - and you confess above that it is not our nation that you hate. If a candidate were to simply hate some of the people in America - then almost every single American would be a candidate, right?? But the point was, ThenLeave was looking for folks who had a legitimate hatred for the nation, and wanted to leave it due to their hatred. You may have wanted to go on a vacation.......but you didn't want to go to Amsterdam because you hate the United States of America. So you must have had another reason.........and that is probably what eliminated you.
As for the end of your paragraph - you are trying too hard to read between lines that aren't there. My tactic here is very straight-forward. You may tell us how much you hate our president to your heart's content on the other threads - or even this thread, if it makes you feel better. (This forum emphasizes freedom of speech, after all.) But you missed the point of my question. I didn't want to hear that you wanted to leave America because you were anti-Bush (even if you are) - because anti-Bush is not the same as anti-American. And being out of work gives you a possible reason to hate the economy - but anti-unemployment is not the same as being anti-American. So perhaps my question was taken as being a tad "rude" - but the purpose I was after was to learn why you were definitely "anti-American", instead of being "anti-anything-else". So you were thinking that I was telling you to shut-up, and I was not. Rather, I was trying to find out specifically why you hated our nation - and it turns out that you do not. (My "blinders" were to make sure I wouldn't miss the reasons in a sea of answers that were not anti-American. I hope that you can see that now.)
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9/25/03, 8:34 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
First of all, the thing I hate the most is how people like yourself are marginalizing people like myself, by drawing a line in the sand and saying "You are either for us or against us." That is the most anti-American thing I can imagine, but you wrap yourself around the Flag and tell anyone who dissents that they are wrong. That is not what America is about. If it weren't for political dissent, America would still be an English colony.
However, I also agree that people like yourself have the right to voice your opinions. Hell, the KKK has the right to voice their opinions, even if I don't agree with them. And, of course, I have the right to voice mine. That's what I love about America.
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I think that the important part is to clarify what is being said on this site. The point ThenLeave makes is that you either want to live in this nation, or you wish to leave - and if you hate America enough to leave it......then help is offered. Whether you agree with us or not on all points is not the issue on this forum.
I would actually appreciate it if you would take your opinion to the hard-core "leftist" forums on the web, and make the same complaint that you just did. You see, if I were to dare to say something conservative on many liberal forums, then I would be instantly banned from that forum. By your argument above - doesn't that make liberal forums "unAmerican"? Perhaps you should go and tell them about this............... The fact that you can still login and yell at us basically lets you know that this site is very pro-freedom-of-speech. I'd urge you to think about that point.
Once again, you have mentioned a reason that you love America - so I will remind you that to be a verified candidate, you have to hate America, and desire to leave the country because of your hate.
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9/25/03, 8:45 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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So, in other words, you're just waiting for the one person in America who hates it more than people in other
countries...
As far as lame excuses go, that's Number One.
I like how you say I have a lot of hate in my life, then you go on to say that I don't hate America enough.
Just admit that you're cheap, and that your site is a dud, and I'll be on my way.
I knew, from the first e-mail, when I actually went out of my way to say I hated America (because at the time I was out of work and all that), that this was a farce. Every response you've given me confirms this.
In fact, thanks to you, I won $50 from a friend who bet me that this time I was going to get sent away for good. I bet him that you guys had no intention of sending anyone in the first place, and I was right.
I'd spend the money on some of those mugs, but the only problem is I'd be sending money to you.
As for vacation, who takes year long vacations? I certainly don't. You said on your site ANYWHERE in the world, as long as it wasn't a terrorist-sponsoring country.
Anyway, I'll keep responding to your posts as long as you keep posting them. But you know you've lost, right? Despite your attempts to sound rational and civilized, the rest of your site speaks for itself. Everyone I have given the URL to-- even people who once felt the way you do-- have felt nauseated by the crappy stench of your version of patriotism.
And are you going to give back the paltry $176.00 that you somehow managed to raise? Or was that out of your own pocket? Better yet-- you raised the money, and now you're claiming that it's yours.
Go to www.modestneeds.org-- maybe the guy at that site will lend you the money to send someone away.
9/25/03, 8:53 pm Se
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Don't split hairs here-- you people at this site are the ones saying "for or against." And since I am against what you are for, that makes me an America-hater. Therefore, by your own divisive logic, you MUST send me to Amsterdam, because I am against you and your "America-loving" crew.
Yes, it's black-and-white extremist logic, but it's that very same logic that enables people to say "If you don't like it here, then leave!"
On that note: I'd like to leave on October 24th of this year-- that's the day after my mother's birthday. She'd be terribly displeased if I missed her birthday. I don't want to fly on United or American, though-- something about those airlines gives me the creeps...
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, I'd like a ticket to Amsterdam. Who knows? Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave. But I was hoping to go by the summer, and now it's Fall, and I was the one who had to come to you guys THREE TIMES already. And what about the other "candidates?" If they really have all changed their minds, as you claim, then why haven't you updated your site to reflect this? It seems to me that you have no faith in your own convictions. Therefore, anything you say to me at this point is entirely without credibilty.
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First - about the site. I'm just a poster here, like you are. So I have no control whatsoever over the site. Please don't blame me for not updating a site that I don't own. It isn't your fault that the site isn't getting updated, either, is it?? I agree with you on this point - if the site is actually taking a step away from offering money to folks who want to leave - then the main web page should be updated to reflect this, and avoid any confusions on the point. But all that I can do is to urge ThenLeave to do so.......that is the extent of my power. Note for emphasis: You have not come to me three times already - I am just a poster like you are. Feel free to send a PM (Personal Message) to ThenLeave about the issue - and maybe he can get to it when his work allows him to.
But the point that I was making earlier was that I recall a time when the site reported having twenty-six candidates. The number on the main page is now listing nine candidates. So the site has changed in the past to reflect the number of folks who claimed to be "serious" about hating America, and wanting to leave it. Apparently, the reason 26 people became candidates, and the number dropped to 9, was that at least 15 of the candidates did not truly hate America enough to leave it - or changed their minds when they found that ThenLeave was serious about helping them leave.
I should also note that to become a "verified candidate", a person was supposed to guarantee ThenLeave that they would stay out of the country for a year. This was to measure their seriousness in leaving - as I'm sure many people might be asking for money just so that they could take a quick vacation for less money. And the point of this web site was to tell folks that if they were preaching enough hate to leave America and wanting to leave it - then you were going to stay out for a while.
Now let's go over the requirements again. Do you hate America the nation? (Nope.) Did you promise to leave for at least a year? (Nope. "Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave" is not the same as a promise to stay out for at least a year, and I think you know that.) Do you have an American passport, shots, and other things taken care of so that you really CAN leave America? I hope that you know that you cannot just go to an airport, and go to another nation in Europe with no paperwork! From what I can see........you were not put on the candidate's list for legitimate reasons - and if you had complaints before - you should have entered them on this forum back then, instead of waiting for your desired date to leave to expire first.
Finally, I'll remind you again that I'm just a poster here - putting my two cents in, just like you are. So don't hate me for my opinions. And don't blame me for the way the site is run - that isn't my job. (I'm getting a little tired of hearing that my postings have no credibility because I dare to post items on a site that I don't own!)
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mcginty wrote:
I don't hate America, and I don't hate Americans in specific-- I hate the actions of ignorant Americans who make me feel ashamed for living under the same umbrella as them. You do not speak for me, just as I do not speak for you. But get real-- Iraq was a bad idea, and now my stepfather has to stay out there until May, instead coming home to his wife (my mother) and his kids in October like Bush promised. He's a reserve, and was proud to do his time, but if you ask me a real hero and a real patriot stays at home and raises their kids and takes care of his loved ones. That's all the proof I need from him to call him a hero.
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And the first sentence tell you why you haven't been a verified candidate on this site. If you don't have a legitimate hatred for America - then you aren't in the list of folks who truly want to leave because they hate America - it is that simple.
The issue of Iraq is one that we can debate - but being anti-Iraq does not make you anti-American. (If you were waiting for someone who is "conservative" to say that......now you have heard me say it!)
If you didn't know it, mcginty, I am a retired Army officer. So I understand what you are saying about "doing your time", and "being away from your family". If your father is like me - then I know he does not enjoy being away from you any more than you like it! I'm not going to debate your definition of "hero" - because it is a correct one.
But you also pointed out above that dissent made the American nation. Do you understand that General Washington and others did not simply say, "we disagree", and instantly became a nation?! They had to take up arms for what they thought was right. If they had not taken up arms and fought, and spent a lot of time away from their families, then America would not exist. And now is a great time to remind you - no one on Earth can tell exactly how long a war will last, and how much effort it will take to stabilize a nation after it has been defeated. Got it? No one! Folks who tell you that they know such things have never been in uniform. (At least, I hope that is the case!) You are blaming President Bush for something that is beyond his control. He should not have "promised" a return by October when that kind of thing cannot be guaranteed. We had a lot of criticism for President Bush, Sr. on Iraq - for starting a war against Saddam, and not finishing it. Now that we have finished a war against Saddam - I would also propose that it makes sense to do our very best to insure that a viable, democratic government be in power (and supported) so that we don't have to go back in your generation, or in your children's. As with many other jobs, you can choose to do the job right, or resign yourself to having to do it over, later.
Pardon me if this point is too annoying - but it is also true that if you are not willing to serve - then you should not join the Army. It is that simple. "I want to defend my nation......but only on weekends........and only in my home town!" Now you know that such a thing is ridiculous, don't you? So I would also claim that part of the anger which you have should be directed at your own stepfather. He made the decision to serve, and no one held a gun to his head while he signed the papers........... If not Iraq, it could have been North Korea. If not Korea, maybe Cuba. But nobody is guaranteed a "100% peacetime" tour of duty. Not your stepfather, not my cousin, and not me. If you don't want the risk, then get out of the uniform. If you put on the uniform - then follow orders - and don't moan about promises that were never made. It is that simple.
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mcginty wrote:
I support the troops- read the L.A Times article from that soldier who is out in Iraq right now. I believe he used the words "biggest modern lie" to describe his participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom. I support the troops, because they don't want to be out there, fighting so that someone who is rich can get richer off of them.
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For the record, the richest person in Iraq was Saddam Hussein - and he isn't getting any richer right now......... He lived in billion-dollar palaces while most of his people didn't even know about indoor plumbing. I'm not sure which "rich person getting richer" you are talking about - I can only be sure that it isn't Saddam or his family. With the rebuilding in Iraq - maybe all of the people get wealthier, since they won't be building palaces any longer - maybe they can afford some toilets, and training in proper sanitation, so the people end up better off and healthier.
A soldier who says what he thinks is not necessarily providing bona-fide facts. After world war II, there were a lot of conspiracy theorists who said that Hitler was still alive in Argentina! (Yes, veterans were making these reports!) But reading that in one of the papers every month did not make it true! And during the war, all of the media reported General Patton as saying that America and Britain would rule the post-war world. Point one: Yes, he really said it! Point two: It wasn't true - as the Soviets had something to say about it! So a three-star General could be wrong in what he thinks and says, but the guy interviewed in Iraq must certainly be accurate - isn't that obvious? (Sarcasm intended.)
You may be quoting one article, and perhaps your own step-dad - but you might just be reaching to claim that you are speaking for every single soldier in Iraq. Didn't you just claim that there isn't a single soldier in Iraq who is serving his nation without complaint? Am I the only one who suspects that scuh a claim isn't accurate????.........
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, the minute you scrape up enough change from under your couch to get me on the plane to Amsterdam, please let me know ASAP. You may think I'm bluffing, but I guarantee you-- I will not change my mind. I think that's what you guys are afraid of, and I think that's why I've never been accepted as a candidate.
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I don't own the site, and I don't administer it - so quit assuming that I run the place - I do not. You have heard me refer to him before - the owner is ThenLeave - that isn't the name of the site, it is the login name of the site owner. He may have more than one administrator, but I don't know that story. The point is - if you have something personal to say to ThenLeave - then do so. But quit blaming the rest of us in a hissy-fit when you didn't get your way. I never offered to give anyone any money - and I'm tired of being treated as though I did.
I am not the person who decides who is a "verified candidate" - but as a common poster, I think that I've pointed out some of the reasons that you were not made one. Yelling at me as though I personally made the decision on you, and did it deliberately to screw you, is ridiculous. "You guys" is lumping me in with other people, and I don't necessarily enjoy being blamed for something that I didn't do.
You were filing a complaint on the forum about not being a candidate - and I confess it freely - I was curious as to your circumstances. I just wondered if I could figure out why you were not one of the verified candidates. I stated why it is possible, but I'm not the authority, to be sure.
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9/25/03, 11:43 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
So, in other words, you're just waiting for the one person in America who hates it more than people in other
countries...
As far as lame excuses go, that's Number One.
I like how you say I have a lot of hate in my life, then you go on to say that I don't hate America enough.
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I'm not waiting for anything. I have no more power here than you do.
The point is: folks were saying that they legitimately hated America, and wanted to leave it for that reason. You have freely confessed that you are not one of these people, so I wonder about your term "lame excuses". If you weren't really one of those people - then why did you even apply? You are calling the site owner a liar - when you were one to start with! Your application said, "I really hate America" - and now you are saying, "No, I love America for several reasons!" You should make up your mind which side of fence you are going to be standing on........... And if "I love America" is what you are saying - then that is the point I think that our site owner was trying to make. That is, the folks who say that they truly hate America are full of hot air - they do not hate America, and they do not hate it enough to leave it for that reason. So you want to travel, so what? If hate isn't the reason - then be quiet.
I have no doubt at all that you are a person who wants to go overseas, and you want to find a way to force someone else to pay for it. But the fact that you cannot tell the truth to this site's owner is not my problem. Get a job.......keep a job........and don't bitch to me if you cannot afford to do all of the things that you want to do - because I cannot afford all of my dreams, either.
Finally - you have a lot of hate in your life - but that does not mean that any of it is toward our nation. In fact, I sense a great deal of hate toward me.........and all I have done is tried to figure out what in the heck you were talking about. Lots of hate......no good reason......
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 12:43 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
Just admit that you're cheap, and that your site is a dud, and I'll be on my way.
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I never made you a guarantee, buddy. And it isn't my site.
But since you bring it up, which lawyer were you planning to hire to write up the contract by which you would guarantee not to return to America for a year? After saying, "I really hate America, so I need to be a candidate!", and then saying, "Well, I don't really hate this nation!" - are you claiming now that anyone should be taking your word for anything, Mr. Ledesma? If I were running the thing, I'd expect a written contract. You know, something that explained in hard words what penalty would be applied to you if you ended up lying..........most certainly more money than I'd be paying to get you over there......so that you'd pay more money to come home than you would to stay.......you know.......something FAIR.
And don't bother responding to that.......I'm sure that your answer goes something like, "just trust me", and if you decide to wimp out and come home early.......that's just my tough stuff, right? People who have money need to be "responsible" toward you, and give you free money - but the reverse is never true about you being responsible, right? That is "only if you feel like it......"
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
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mcginty wrote:
I knew, from the first e-mail, when I actually went out of my way to say I hated America (because at the time I was out of work and all that), that this was a farce. Every response you've given me confirms this.
In fact, thanks to you, I won $50 from a friend who bet me that this time I was going to get sent away for good. I bet him that you guys had no intention of sending anyone in the first place, and I was right.
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So what I am guessing as another poster on the forum is the same as what the site owner is thinking..............maybe I could sell that talent to the government!
Yes......you went out of your way to say you hated America, and now you say that you lied! So now, of course, you have the right to question everyone else's credibility.......because, after all, "it takes one to know one"!
Please identify your friend, so that I can talk to him - because he doesn't owe you $50 bucks. Anything that I am saying as just another poster is no proof whatsoever as to what the site owner "intended" to do. If you keep that money, James, you are guilty of fraud. To prove that someone "did not have an intention" in court, you need to do more than report what someone else on the forum has said, and you know it. So what did you bet on......really......? Whether you would get sent is a different bet entirely than if the owner really "intended to send someone" who wanted to leave the nation.
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:09 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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quote:
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mcginty wrote:
As for vacation, who takes year long vacations? I certainly don't. You said on your site ANYWHERE in the world, as long as it wasn't a terrorist-sponsoring country.
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My point exactly - and that is why folks would require a written contract to make it official. Otherwise, you could say, "I never agreed to go for a year", just like you said, "I really don't hate America......". The reason for the one-year requirement was to avoid a bunch of applications from folks who just wanted a free plane ride - and planned to come home right after their "vacation". As you have noted over and over.......some people lie.
I don't think that there is a dispute over Amsterdam, James, but like I said, I am not the person who makes any of those decisions. I hope that you understand that part of the situation is whether a nation would accept you - and that was what ThenLeave should have made more clear. For example, some folks don't think that North Korea sponsors terrorism..........but whether folks feel that way or not.......the point is that that nation does not have a tourism industry - you cannot get into North Korea without an explicit invitation to get in. So even if you wanted to go there.......no one could get you in unless the nation wanted to see you. The Netherlands is a lot easier to get into - so I don't see that as a problem.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:26 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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mcginty wrote:
And are you going to give back the paltry $176.00 that you somehow managed to raise? Or was that out of your own pocket? Better yet-- you raised the money, and now you're claiming that it's yours.
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There is a thread labelled, "IMPORTANT QUESTION FROM ADMINISTRATOR" - started by ThenLeave. This is where the site's owner identified that he was giving up on the prospect of sending anyone out of America, because he couldn't find anyone who was serious. (His claim - not mine.)
The plan was to donate the money raised to a charity - but I don't think that the owner ever told us where the money ended up - maybe we can encourage him on that point, and get the information.
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:37 am
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, I'll keep responding to your posts as long as you keep posting them. But you know you've lost, right? Despite your attempts to sound rational and civilized, the rest of your site speaks for itself. Everyone I have given the URL to-- even people who once felt the way you do-- have felt nauseated by the crappy stench of your version of patriotism.
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And despite my health problems, I'll keep trying to tell folks what I think as well. And I haven't lost - because there was nothing to win. I don't enter my opinion to win anything. This isn't a debate at old Cleveland High School - where you might get points for BS, Jimmy.
I won't debate about the main web site - as you are not the first to have read it as saying something differently than was intended. That is why we have so many threads that start out yelling at us, and end up a lot calmer. Maybe we can get ThenLeave to update it for clarity.....one last time.
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 1:48 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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mcginty wrote:
Don't split hairs here-- you people at this site are the ones saying "for or against." And since I am against what you are for, that makes me an America-hater. Therefore, by your own divisive logic, you MUST send me to Amsterdam, because I am against you and your "America-loving" crew.
Yes, it's black-and-white extremist logic, but it's that very same logic that enables people to say "If you don't like it here, then leave!"
On that note: I'd like to leave on October 24th of this year-- that's the day after my mother's birthday. She'd be terribly displeased if I missed her birthday. I don't want to fly on United or American, though-- something about those airlines gives me the creeps...
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I'm not splitting hairs - I'm saying what I think as another poster on the forum - why does that annoy you so much? The point is that "American hater" comes from the heart - and not from someone else's opinion of you. A black person saying "racist" does not make someone a racist - but acting as a racist makes someone a racist. It is that simple. What seems to make you angry is when other people behave like they want to.......and say how they feel, instead of behaving the way you believe we should behave. Doesn't that make you look kinda "prejudiced"? I mean........"I know how you think"......"I know how you feel"......."I know what 'you people' do in such situations" - that is prejudiced - and if I said it to a person of a different race, I'm sure that they would be mad about it. James Ledesma doesn't have any more rights than anyone else............so quit acting as though other people are less than you, mentally.
No one has ever said, "If you don't like it here, then leave!" What the owner has said is, "If you hate America, and want to leave it - maybe we can help." You see, you are claiming that leaving the nation is our idea - and it is supposed to be the idea of the person who is leaving. Now by your own "divisive logic", no one has to send you anywhere - because you claim it is 100% the owner's decision, and no one else's. And if you truly believe that, then you should shut up - because it is his decision, and no one else's. Now let me take it out of your words, and put it into my own - since I'm not part of site ownership. "The site owner is the boss. He does what he wants, and you are not his boss. If you have a dispute that is valid - hire an attorney. That is how you actually "win" this kind of thing. If you want to prove that you are right - then take him to court and prove it. Anything less is pure BS."
Speaking of "black and white extremist logic" - you said that you wanted to go to Amsterdam this summer.......so why are you still here? Pardon my sarcasm, but you really don't strike me as being very serious about leaving if you are still in America months after you absolutely, positively, had to go.......... And now you bring up your mother's birthday - what does that have to do with anything? If ThenLeave had sent you to Amsterdam for a year in June.......then you wouldn't have been here for her birthday......would you? So it didn't matter before, and you said so.......so why does it matter now? People in their late-20's or early-30's are adults now - so guess what? Your mommy should be able to live without you there this year - just like you planned for yourself when you asked to leave this summer, right? You graduated from high school eleven years ago - so you do a few things without mommy's permission, right? (If you could afford a round trip flight to visit mommy for her birthday - then you can afford your own one-way ticket to Amsterdam - so go! And stop whining......)
And all of the sudden, you want to pick your airline - my, oh, my! I thought that ThenLeave was the guy who made that decision. There is no guarantee anywhere on the site, stated or implied, that the person leaving gets to choose the transportation company. Sounds like you are just setting yourself up for another, "They won't do it right!" bitch-and-moan session about the decisions. So you want to leave, but only 100% on your terms, whether that was put in writing or not - and you want to exclude two of the airlines that provide the shortest flights at the best prices. (Yes, I checked.) From what I'm seeing - you don't seem to want to go - or you would have gone already. This thread is just another "finger pointing exercise" - where you blame someone else for your own wimpy little ability to not do what you want.
(Where do you work? Have you told your employer of your plans to leave the country next month, or are you lying about that to stay in good with the boss?)
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/26/03, 3:17 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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mcginty wrote:
Anyway, I'll keep responding to your posts as long as you keep posting them.
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Well, I have taken a break for a couple of days - are you going to answer, or not??????????
(I beg your pardon if you have been taken out by health reasons, like I do sometimes. But it seems that your fire on this thread has been extinguished. Has it?)
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
9/29/03, 1:43 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
BigRed
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Um...
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donrosenberger, you state repeatedly that this is not your site, that you don't make the decisions, that you are just a common poster. Then you go on to explain in almost three pages of posts what the point of this site is and why mcginty did not qualify for the trip out of the country. Can't blame him for being confused. Why don't you let the site's owner speak for himself? If he can be bothered.
Talk about beating a dead horse. You are all over this board speaking for the owner. Why don't you just get over it and move on with your life?
Last edited by BigRed, 10/7/03, 1:10 am
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Take a dose of your own medicine
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So.............
Basically, if someone says anything to criticize the owner of the forum, then they are allowed to do that, because of the ethic called "freedom of speech".
But if anyone wishes to support the site owner, and tells someone that they are "mistaken" in their twisted beliefs and criticisms, then they are not allowed to do that....... And the reason for this is simple enough: it is because BigRed now speaks as the owner of the site, and makes all of the decisions. Huh????????
Three points:
1. sexmcginty stated that he would reply to every post, as long as we kept posting. So where is he? I am not the site's owner - but I have the same freedom of speech as anyone else. Leftists who do not believe in freedom of speech for all should not come here preaching about freedom of speech. (I have the firm belief that if sexmcginty had spent five pages, and 50 posts, making criticism of the site owner - then BigRed would not have said a thing about it. Sounds like a clear case of discrimination to me.........................)
2. I'm still anxious to hear as to whether James Ledesma (sexmcginty) has notified his employer of his plans to leave the nation. I mean........if he is truly serious about departure for at least a year........shouldn't his boss know about it, so that James can be replaced at work? I can hear the silence....................... But somehow - I'm sure that this "silence" means that he can come back later, and claim that he did not lose the argument. So get the gist - if you say that you are going to answer every point - and then run away to hide - then you are not a truly "verified candidate". When you run away from the effort to verify you, even when it is conducted by other posters, then you're not a real candidate, and anyone reading the forum can see it.
3. Everyone else has stopped discussing this point - so why are you here, offering your two cents way too late? To quote another poster on the forum: "Talk about beating a dead horse........ Why don't you just get over it and move on with your life?"
---
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/8/03, 3:15 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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Re: Um...
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quote:
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BigRed wrote:
Can't blame him for being confused. Why don't you let the site's owner speak for himself?
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I am not stopping the site owner from doing any speaking. The site owner has the same freedom of speech as any other poster. So perhaps the site owner believes that I am telling the truth.....or the site owner would take the time to post a statement saying that I am wrong, now wouldn't he??? (That is the argument posters use when they criticize the site owner, now isn't it? You like it when the argument works for you.......so get used to it when the same argument works against you!)
Now on the same line of your argument........why are you even here? Why can't you leave things alone, and let sexmcginty speak for himself? If James still has a point to make, then let him do it! If it is wrong for me to help one side of the conversation, then it is wrong for you to chime in on the other side .........and that is by your own rules, and not because I said so.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/8/03, 3:25 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
ThenLeave
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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BigRed...Don does a great job of speaking for what this site is about. He expresses my views (as the real site owner) quite well. I see no point in stating my views if they have already been expressed. I stated a long time ago that this forum was built for users of the site only. I did not want to get involved...if you have a question for me...try the e-mail link.
10/10/03, 11:35 pm Send Email to ThenLeave Send PM to ThenLeave
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Re: Do you still want to go???????
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Now that I think about it, it's not the country I hate.
I don't hate America, and I don't hate Americans in specific.
Anyway, I'd like a ticket to Amsterdam. Who knows? Maybe I'll go there and never want to leave. But I was hoping to go by the summer, and now it's Fall, and I was the one who had to come to you guys THREE TIMES already.
All statements made by sexmcginty.
You must hate America to qualify for the offer.
What part of that don't you understand?
You can ask as many times as you want, but you might want to consider www.freevacationairfare.com
Then leave is not about handing out airline tickets to every person that asks.
YOU MUST MEET THE CRITERIA FOR THE OFFER.
You have PROVEN in your posts that you do NOT qualify.
What I'm trying to understand is WHY there are so many people claiming to hate America when there is a possibility for a free ticket, but later say they don't hate America or it's people?
Maybe you are just mad because your attempt to get a free ticket without the qualifications has failed.
10/12/03, 11:03 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
donrosenberger
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My two cents:
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Well........here's my two cents:
It appears that sexmcginty and others have made a rampant assumption. That is, they hate free speech - and specifically, what ThenLeave has to say. And as people who hate free speech - they assume that anyone who disagrees with them must be unAmerican.
Now they transfer this assumption incorrectly to ThenLeave, and claim that if they disagree with the site in any way, then they must be viewed as unAmerican. This web site does not do this assessment, the leftists do this incorrectly to themselves - and since they oppose free speech, they detest it when one of us points out that their self-assessment is incorrect!
You may have noticed that BigRed has put his two cents in as well - basically, telling me that the only people who should be on the discussion forum are the site owner and the people who oppose him. That is fairly one-sided logic, but I seem to recall that BigRed claimed to be a lawyer. So perhaps the one-sided logic should not surprise me coming from that profession.
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/12/03, 6:49 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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Re: My two cents:
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Usually, my e-mail service alerts me to when a reply has come in. For the last few posts, this has not been the case. Since I have a life that has nothing to do with this site, I haven't been responding.
But every time I leave the site and come back after a while, I notice certain things. Like, the candidates list staying the same. Or the amount of money raised staying the same. And now, an administrator's note asking if it's worth it to keep the site going.
By the way: Thank you, Big Red, for pointing out Mr. Rosenberger's fanatical fervor in his line-by-line refutation of my post. Indeed, Rosenberger, I "got your goat" and put you on the defensive in a massive way... and all I had to do was post my thoughts. Maybe it was that line you posted at the end of every one of your posts, about defeating people with reason... maybe I took that to heart, and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
I don't expect you to concede: only an honorable opponent would do that.
I suspect that this will be my last post, not because I have nothing left to say, but because I don't think this site or this message board will even be here the next time I visit it.
Thanks for the memories...
SUPPORT THE TROOPS-- BRING THEM HOME!!
IMPEACH BUSH!!
WWW.REALANSWERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
get out
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A special response for sexmcginty
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If you had actually taken the time to read other posts on this site, you will notice that Don Rosenbereger answers almost all posts in that same line by line manner. You have not "gotten his goat". You have merely received the "standard response".
Also, the thread from the administrator is not a new post. It is a post which has been made "sticky" to put it at the top of the list so the liberals can find it. We were hoping you would look at the date and be able to figure that out.
If you look at the bottom of the screen underneath the spot that you type your reply, you must check the box behind "get notifications when someone replies?" in order for your e-mail service to do the right thing.
You seem to be quite eager to claim a victory which hasn't been won. (not even close!!) The only thing you've been able to accomplish is to make yourself look like a fool if front of your BLOG friends that are supposed to be watching you "beat down" ThenLeave. Your random musings and lack of substance in your posts shows everyone that you have not taken the time to research what you are trying to oppose.
We have, however, extended an invitation for you to debate with us if you like. Just set your arrogant attitude aside & we can get to business.
Last edited by get out, 10/21/03, 8:15 am
10/21/03, 7:52 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Yes, I would love to debate you and whomever feels the need to be debated. How about me vs. Rosenberger, Get Out, and everyone else who feels the need to defend this site against... little ol' me?
A bunch of message board guys against one man-- and yet I'm the one who is told that he looks like a fool. Ain't that rich?
If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd notice that I said that every time I come to this site, your ship is sinking further and further. That's the victory I claim, and as I said before-- I don't expect people like you to condcede the point.
So, what's the topic of the debate then? Should we debate about what you and your Patriot Posse have been going back and forth with me over for some time, namely this website's inability to reach even a modest goal? If that's the topic of the debate, then I have already won, by virtue of making it an issue.
Should we debate the hypocrisy of conservatives who embrace Arnold Schwarzenegger but decry Hollywood's "liberal elite"?
Should we debate the hypocrisy of Rush Limbaugh?
Should we debate how Democrats and Republicans are virtually one and the same nowadays?
Should we debate the Supreme Court upholding the 9th Circuit ruling concerning doctors writing out medical marijuana prescriptions?
Should we debate the meaning of the phrase "America: Love it or Leave it"?
Should we debate Bush's CIA leak, or his war on Iraq while North Korea calls us out?
A few questions: where is the debate going to be held? On neutral turf, I would assume. Yet somehow I suspect that it'll be on your turf. No matter.
Who will moderate the debate? That is, who is objective enough to perform such a task? Certainly no one I know and certainly no one you know...
Who will present the resolution, and who will decide when our opening statements, rebuttals, and conclusions are timed out?
That's when the real "beat down" (as you put it) begins, by the way-- everything I've done up until now has been a prelude. I'm just getting warmed up.
10/21/03, 11:24 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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As you probably know, by visiting other discussion forums, that debates do not necessarily result in a resolution. I certainly don't expect to agree with you, nor do I ever think you will agree with me.
You may have noticed on other sites, if you are not agreed with, your posts are likely to be deleted. You may have also noticed that your posts on this site have not, even though myself or others have not agreed with your statements.
Although there was very little money raised, the point that was made is that there were actually very few people who claimed that they hated America and what it stands for so bad that they wanted to leave. Others were looking for a free ticket to their vacation choice, and didn't meet the qualifying criteria. Those who "made the grade" suddenly had second thoughts, and backed away from the offer. There were indeed more funds available on a private level, those of us who were waiting for a qualified candidate to be selected before making the donation.
This is not about defending this site against "little 'ol you", simply because that is how I view you, as little. You make statements in your BLOG like you're all that, and you don't even begin to impress me, and I would suspect many other people you see as your followers see right through you. If you take some more time to view other posts, you will find there are many posters who have varying viewpoints who have freely discussed issues here.
Your post was read, but the ship is not sinking. The search for a qualified candidate has evidently been terminated quite some time ago, due to a lack of qualified candidates, and qualified candidates who backed out of the offer. This forum has been left open to discuss topics of whatever we choose. Yes, this includes you as well. This ship is a discussion forum, and is quite buoyant. This is not a right vs. left website, although there are several right vs. left topics.
quote:
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So, what's the topic of the debate then? Should we debate about what you and your Patriot Posse have been going back and forth with me over for some time, namely this website's inability to reach even a modest goal? If that's the topic of the debate, then I have already won, by virtue of making it an issue.
Should we debate the hypocrisy of conservatives who embrace Arnold Schwarzenegger but decry Hollywood's "liberal elite"?
Should we debate the hypocrisy of Rush Limbaugh?
Should we debate how Democrats and Republicans are virtually one and the same nowadays?
Should we debate the Supreme Court upholding the 9th Circuit ruling concerning doctors writing out medical marijuana prescriptions?
Should we debate the meaning of the phrase "America: Love it or Leave it"?
Should we debate Bush's CIA leak, or his war on Iraq while North Korea calls us out?
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Sure. Let's get started. But let's debate facts.
quote:
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A few questions: where is the debate going to be held? On neutral turf, I would assume. Yet somehow I suspect that it'll be on your turf. No matter.
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If "no matter", why bother with the question? I would like to think this is neutral turf, and it certainly isn't my turf, considering it is cyberspace. If you are feeling outnumbered, on behalf of myself and others in this forum, a personal invitation is offered for you to invite your friends here to help debate issues.
quote:
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Who will moderate the debate? That is, who is objective enough to perform such a task? Certainly no one I know and certainly no one you know...
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I would suspect if either knows, then it will be likely that no moderation will exist.
quote:
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Who will present the resolution, and who will decide when our opening statements, rebuttals, and conclusions are timed out?
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That would be the moderators job once again. I guess we'll have to work it out on our own.
10/22/03, 9:39 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Blah Blah Blah Blah... All you had to say was "Yes, let's debate."
Since you didn't pick a topic, let me pull out the obvious one:
The war in Iraq.
Specifically: President Bush announced an end to fighting in Iraq earlier this year. This was before he requested $87 billion from Congress. Does the request for $87 billion put his former assurances in another light? Or is the request for &87 billion par for the course in terms of post-war nation-building?
I will let you start the debate with an opening statement. As soon as I receive notification of a reply, I will prepare and post my opening statement. After the openers, we will go back and forth, rebutting each others' statements. Finally, we will end the debate with closing arguments.
You may fire when ready, sir.
10/23/03, 10:37 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
WVUMedGuy
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Adding all this structure to the debates.............Mr. McGinty must be a lawyer...................
10/23/03, 11:59 am Send Email to WVUMedGuy Send PM to WVUMedGuy
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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I think we both know the 87 billion will be exceeded. Regardless of Bush's announcement, the fighting continues. Off the front, the battle will also continue, while decisions are made about who has the current interest in Iraq's finance to be involved in the rebuild.
10/27/03, 7:58 pm Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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http://www.msnbc.com/news/985304.asp
10/28/03, 6:58 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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http://www.rferl.org/iraq-report/
10/28/03, 10:42 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
Smcginty
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1027-05.htm
btw: I had to sign up again for this board... for some reason I was not allowed to log in.
Also: posting links is fine, but when am I going to get an opening statement from whomever wants to debate? And by 'opening statement', I mean exactly that: a paragraph (in the very least) that details ALL of the points you want to make in the course of debate.
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donrosenberger
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Re: My two cents:
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quote:
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mcginty wrote:
Usually, my e-mail service alerts me to when a reply has come in. For the last few posts, this has not been the case. Since I have a life that has nothing to do with this site, I haven't been responding.
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Bullshit. You are a liar and a fraud.
No one put a gun to your head, and told you that you had to respond to every post - that was your idea. You said that as long as someone was posting, you would keep answering.
But if you insist on ThenLeave answering your questions, then why don't you answer mine? Does your boss know of your plans to leave the nation? Yes or no?
Why don't you answer any of my questions or posts. (And an insult is not an answer - that just shows that your mind is not capable of anything but insults.) You have shown that you don't want to argue the points - you want to attack the messenger. And I've seen people like that before - we don't need you here. If you keep claiming that you are too busy, then go away, and don't come back.
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 9:24 pm
donrosenberger
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quote:
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mcginty wrote:
But every time I leave the site and come back after a while, I notice certain things. Like, the candidates list staying the same. Or the amount of money raised staying the same. And now, an administrator's note asking if it's worth it to keep the site going.
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The site found that the number of "verified" candidates kept going down - mostly because people like you were never serious about leaving. (And if you truly were serious about leaving America because you hate it........then why don't you leave? ThenLeave offered to help people leave - but there is no law whatsoever that says you cannot leave unless ThenLeave helps you.)
The "administrator's note" that you refer to was posted back in June........months before you came to ThenLeave, you idiot! One of your blogs claims that ThenLeave started to fold up after you decided to "tear us some new ones". Why don't you wake up, and look at the dates that things are posted before you make any claims about shutting us down?
I have been after ThenLeave, on and off, about updating the main site to reflect that we're mainly here for the chat - but do you know what? He has a real life that has nothing to do with this site. (Now where have I heard someone say something like that before????) So what I am hearing is this: It is OK for you to break promises that you made in writing just because you feel like it. But it is not OK for the site owner to live his life (he never promised to do otherwise) because you don't feel like allowing him to do so! Sounds really fair to me..................
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 9:35 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
By the way: Thank you, Big Red, for pointing out Mr. Rosenberger's fanatical fervor in his line-by-line refutation of my post. Indeed, Rosenberger, I "got your goat" and put you on the defensive in a massive way... and all I had to do was post my thoughts. Maybe it was that line you posted at the end of every one of your posts, about defeating people with reason... maybe I took that to heart, and gave you a taste of your own medicine.
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I disagree, big time.
James Ledesma.......none of the liberals have ever gotten my goat. (Except for the pervert who raped some of my livestock..........was that you, James?) If you post a ton of false items - then I'll tend to post a ton of the truth. Don't lie, and I won't have to post the truth. Perhaps you were hoping that the site was already down.....and that you could look good on your own blog by feeding a bunch of lies with no one here to dispute with you. It must have been very disappointing to find that someone was actually here to dispute your claims. You are talking about me on your BLOG, and I am not talking about you on mine........so let's think about who is getting whose goat, shall we???????
You posted your thoughts, and I posted mine. You were wrong, and I was right - proven by the fact that you have not responded to the issues that I raised during my rebuttals. (If I was wrong......then why not correct me, rather than running away like a little baby!) Your words above were that my postings were a "line-by-line refutation" of your posts - and I thank you for that compliment - since "refutation" means "to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous".
Why would I be on the defensive in the first place, James? I'm posting my full name when I login. I'm not trying to hide behind an e-mail address name that tells no one who I am.......... If you are so darned proud of your own opinions, then why did someone else have to announce to the forum who you were? (My apologies to any allies who take this point personally.........but if you have nothing to fear within your ideas........you don't need a fancy login name.)
Where is BigRed now that you need him? He shot his mouth off once because someone dared to speak up for the site's owner - and then he disappeared again. Maybe he thinks that I might start listing his real name, address, etc.......and I'm thinking about it..........
As for my signature line - postings with "reason" is what Jim Lau is talking about. Not the easily refutable crap that you tend to specialize in.
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 10:00 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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mcginty wrote:
I don't expect you to concede: only an honorable opponent would do that.
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You have mentioned that your claims were all refuted (look it up in the dictionary), so why would I need to concede after you have admitted defeat?
You have not conceded formally.........and I guess that has something to say about how honorable you are, too!
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 10:06 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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mcginty wrote:
Yes, I would love to debate you and whomever feels the need to be debated. How about me vs. Rosenberger, Get Out, and everyone else who feels the need to defend this site against... little ol' me?
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"Little" is the word for it.
Why don't you start a new thread, and debate folks to your heart's content over there?
You have claimed on your BLOG that if that site goes down, that is ONE SMALL BUT IMPORTANT VICTORY for unpopular speech in this country. So perhaps someone should tell you that you are working against yourself. (Not very smart to do that......now is it?) I mean......you want this site to die - but you are offering to keep debates going to insure that it does not die. Are you thereby claiming to be "smarter" than us......while trying to help us keep the site going?
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 10:45 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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Smcginty wrote:
Also: posting links is fine, but when am I going to get an opening statement from whomever wants to debate? And by 'opening statement', I mean exactly that: a paragraph (in the very least) that details ALL of the points you want to make in the course of debate.
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Why do any of us have to provide any points to debate? If you have something to say, then say it! Since you are not the owner of this site - then stop bossing people around.
Keep posting.........it helps this site survive!
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/28/03, 11:11 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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All I know is, when someone posts SIX replies to one post, in the span of two hours, then indeed my work is done.
Plus, those six replies were to a post that I had directed at Get Out.
You lose, buddy, no matter how you stack the cards.
10/29/03, 7:28 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
get out
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We have not lost here, even though you seem to be quite willing to accept some b.s. victory that has not been earned or achieved. This forum is alive and well, and will continue to function. If you are so intent to debate here, why don't YOU make an opening statement on any issue and show us that YOU have adequate knowledge to debate. I have read all your posts here, and all I see is that you are willing to post links, claim un-won victories, and argue with people about the way they answer posts. We have had plenty of people who have posted their comments about what they like or dislike about the website and the forum, and many have debated their points. Others, such as yourself so far, have come in, spewing their b.s. about how they don't like us and never actually get to a valid point, other than points that have already been made by others, particularily the liberal media (nbc, newsweek) So make your point, present an issue.
10/29/03, 8:57 am Send Email to get out Send PM to get out
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mcginty wrote:
All I know is, when someone posts SIX replies to one post, in the span of two hours, then indeed my work is done.
Plus, those six replies were to a post that I had directed at Get Out.
You lose, buddy, no matter how you stack the cards.
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All that I know is..........when I refute all of someone's points to an item, and they refuse to debate the item further - then they have not won.
Oh.......and if someone donates an incredible amount of space to my name in their on-line BLOG - and haven't even earned a mention on one of my sites........ then someone has gotten someone else's goat. Thanks for the ton of free publicity. I can now use your web site as an example of blatant discrimination against the handicapped. You don't lose very well, now, do you little boy?
Does your boss know that you spend company time on company machines to do your BLOG? (Thanks for confessing to that in writing, by the way. I look forward to talking to your boss about that.)
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
10/31/03, 4:39 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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Re: So I see that no one has been sent away yet...
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Hey, I'm just here to help. Glad you appreciate the "publicity" you've been getting.
You know, that blog entry took me a whole ten minutes to write. I type fast, what can I say? As for space, I devote just as much of it to anything else that I find worth writing about. You should be flattered that I deemed it a sufficiently writable topic.
I defy you to find a disparaging remark about the handicapped in that entry. As far as I can tell, I mentioned that the character of "Don Rosenberger" was in a wheelchair. How is this making fun of the handicapped? To make fun of the handicapped, one has to make the affliction look ridiculous. All I did was describe a character, based on what I imagined the character to be like. By titling the entry "a little creative fiction", it is clear to anyone who reads it that the story is made up.
And you still haven't tried to make a point against MY debate topic, which was in regards to the $87 Billion from Congress. But I don't expect you to get back to that-- you're too busy trying to get me in trouble to actually follow your own rules. And that tells me that I got your goat metaphorically-- I don't know why you had the image of having sex with your livestock on your mind in the first place, unless my suspicions about you are true.
We can keep going back and forth over this until the metaphorical cows come in. "Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
Mr. Blonde, "Reservoir Dogs"
10/31/03, 7:16 am Send Email to mcginty Send PM to mcginty
get out
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You have mentioned the 87 billion from congress, but have made no statements regarding your views, only links of what the liberal media thinks. What are your thoughts?? Who knows, maybe some of us will agree with you.
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mcginty wrote:
I defy you to find a disparaging remark about the handicapped in that entry. As far as I can tell, I mentioned that the character of "Don Rosenberger" was in a wheelchair. How is this making fun of the handicapped? To make fun of the handicapped, one has to make the affliction look ridiculous. All I did was describe a character, based on what I imagined the character to be like. By titling the entry "a little creative fiction", it is clear to anyone who reads it that the story is made up.
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Copies have been made of entries here and on the BLOG. In both locations, you have accused me of committing illegal acts. (And on the other thread of this forum, you did absolutely nothing to say that it was "creative fiction".) So sedacious libel applies.
Why don't you make it possible for me to make entries to your BLOG, so that I can entertain you as much there as I do here? Or is it possible that you cannot tolerate anyone disagreeing with you at all?
And I don't have to find a "disparaging remark" on your site.........putz. Because everyone else that is involved with disability rights, and who sees your site, agrees with me. You cannot see it because you don't want to see it. It is not disparaging to you.......because you think it is the truth about disabled individuals. Show it to your boss, and ask him to login here, and send me a PM or e-mail about how nice it is.............
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"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
11/4/03, 10:11 pm Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
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I'm back again...
You need to bone up on your libel laws. You don't have a case. If you ever decided to do something as boneheaded and stupid as trying to file a libel case, suffice it to say that I have enough evidence-- on this very site-- of you doing the same to me, thus prompting a counter-suit.
However, no self-respecting judge in their right mind would hear a libel case based on blogs and message boards.
Just wanted to let you know that I haven't backed down-- I'm just doing what I've done since I found this place-- checking in occasionally, getting you mad, and laughing.
But just to show you that I'm not a monster, I sent a post to The Administrator, and he responded with a nice, decent reply. I fully expected that man to attack me-- after all, he started this site --but instead he showed that he was open-minded... unlike you, dear sir.
Anyway, I'll check back in two months and find three pages of replies from you, based on one or two sentences from me. And I'll laugh as I always do.
11/17/03, 9:04 pm Send Email to Smcginty Send PM to Smcginty
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Smcginty wrote:
You need to bone up on your libel laws. You don't have a case. If you ever decided to do something as boneheaded and stupid as trying to file a libel case, suffice it to say that I have enough evidence-- on this very site-- of you doing the same to me, thus prompting a counter-suit.
However, no self-respecting judge in their right mind would hear a libel case based on blogs and message boards.
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Fine. Then just keep doing what you are doing. Because it only makes my case stronger. The more you deny that you did anything wrong........the stronger the case that you have done this discrimination on purpose.
Name-calling is not a basis for a case - but you have accused me of breaking into and using one of your e-mail accounts. That is a crime - and accusing me of doing so when you know that I haven't is also a crime. If you doubt that, just ask one of the policemen at the precinct down the street............
If you would like to be in court, then that suits me fine. Please file first, if you want to. You mentioned that a judge would not listen to such a case - but you must first realize that thousands of dollars in legal fees would accumulate before either of us made it before a judge. And if you are curious......the answer is that I can easily afford that amount to make a case. Can you? You might wish to laugh at me later, and let your BLOG readers know about how much money you have cost me in court for my loss. But it will cost you money, too, buddy. And I think that the costs will hurt you a lot more than they will hurt me.
You also need to bone up on your legal studies. You see, part of what you have done is discrimination against the handicapped. And there is no statute of limitations upon those actions. So I don't have to come after you right now.......I can wait until later, and take whatever savings you have built up between now and then. If you think that you can beat the rap, then just keep discriminating! I encourage it! Maybe you can hire "Baghdad Bob" to be your defence counsel:
And you need to also bone up on your libel law, James. Personal opinion is not libel. But stating in writing that I have committed a crime (messing with your e-mail account) is libelous if I can prove that I did not do it.
(And if you are curious, we have already subpoenaed the records from hotmail.com for your logins from that period, and can show that the only IP addresses that accessed your accounts were close to you, and not close to me.)
You need to study your libel laws. Try looking at this site: Slander and Libel Laws
So I'm not going to spend a lot of time here arguing with you over whether you are guilty. Because you are guilty. Work hard, and save as much money as you can - the more, the better! I hope you'll get a big laugh out of losing your money.
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I'm also waiting to hear from your boss - so that we can talk about your openly discriminatory behavior on office equipment that he owns. Maybe it is time for me to hire a private investigator - and seek you and your boss out, personally. Then I don't have to worry about him looking for me.........because I'll be looking for him!
And as I said above - I don't have to do it now.....or next week......or even next year. Because there is no statute of limitations on your actions.
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http://www.geocities.com/donrosenberger/
"I can defeat you physically with or without a reason. But I can only defeat your mind with a reason." -Jim Lau
11/26/03, 2:57 am Send Email to donrosenberger Send PM to donrosenberger
mcginty
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It all boils down to one very simple thing: freedom of speech. In my blog, I explicitly stated that it was a work of fiction. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. This is a point I make to everyone who reads my bog. I am not a journalist, and therefore have no obligation to report hard facts.
The administrator of a rock band's website once read my blog, which referenced their band. He/she liked my piece and wanted to reproduce it on their blog. I said "Sure, as long as you run a disclaimer stating that it is entertainment, and not journalism." They haven't reproduced my entry yet, and they probably never will. Maybe if I had not demanded a disclaimer they would have published it as "fact". The disclaimer saves people a lot of time and energy.
The fact is, if you don't like what I say in my blog, don't visit it. If you want to comment on my blog, go right ahead. If I want to write a fictional story about a person whose name can be found via a simple Google search, that is up to me.
As for accusing you of a crime: I put forth a theory based purely on speculation, in a fictional context. If you didn't do it, then there's no problem, right? Who on this message board would take my side over yours? What are you so worried about? If I'd thought you were the culprit, I would've already called the cops on you.
Sounds like a guilty conscience to me.
11/26/03, 3:09 pm
posted by J Drawz at
1:18 PM
